Religion.

Anything else unrelated to gaming can go here.
Post Reply
User avatar
Bobo
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 846
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 1:54 pm
Location: Twilight Zone

Post by Bobo »

Were only people! We often make mistakes, eh! So, some people are more corrupt then others. That person doesn't represent the Church even if he's the priest. If the priest falls you get another.

I don't believe that priests can "save" you from your sins, on what they think about your sinsareity (sin-sear-it-e). The only person who can save you is Christ!!!! Correct me if i'm wrong, but catholics think Jesus's mother is holy!!! It doen't make sence to me. Could you please explane.
Webmaster- <a href="http://www.dosgames.com/~bobo">Bobo's DOSGames</a>
^ Biggest Dos 3D Shooters site in the World! :)
Total Games = <b>201</b>
Over <b>100900</b> Downloads since 2004
Unknown_K
Way too much free time
Way too much free time
Posts: 559
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 6:55 pm

Post by Unknown_K »

Bobo wrote:Were only people! We often make mistakes, eh! So, some people are more corrupt then others. That person doesn't represent the Church even if he's the priest. If the priest falls you get another.

I don't believe that priests can "save" you from your sins, on what they think about your sinsareity (sin-sear-it-e). The only person who can save you is Christ!!!! Correct me if i'm wrong, but catholics think Jesus's mother is holy!!! It doen't make sence to me. Could you please explane.
Well lets see everybody in the church organisation all the way to the cardinal knew the guy was molesting kids for over 3 decades but they let him do it and told the parents a bunch of bullshit to cover it up and even promoted the evil fucker. Thats not a "mistake " its a complete disregard for the welfare of the children who gave their time to their church by everybody involved, and its criminal.
User avatar
Dogbreath
Admin
Admin
Posts: 4620
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 7:02 pm
Location: In the back of a jacked-up Ford.

Post by Dogbreath »

I believe religion is, for the most part, just a racket. A pile of bullshit used to control the masses at large. Look at the main teachings of all the "founders" of the main religions today: Jesus, Abraham, Mohammad, Buddha, etc. All of their teachings were about love and self-sacrifice, not about control. To quote Jesus "Love your neighbor as yourself." Jesus taught tolerance and love, he entertained "unclean" tax collectors and thieves at his house! In fact, the only people the Bible *EVER* records him condemning are the leaders of the mainstream religion, the corrupted ones that used their elevated status to control the masses of "ordinary" people while not actually using the principles taught by Abraham/Moses/the Judges. (Love of God and friend, loyalty, selflessness) These people murdered him for speaking out against the main religion!

Eventually, some people understood Jesus' point and seceded from the close-minded religious leaders and began worshiping as they pleased. This went fine for about 3 centuries, then Christianity gained power and the cycle started all over again...

The point: Religion is great so long as it isn't used to impose rules that have nothing to do with the teachings (and everything to do with control) and it doesn't have power. Every religion in the history of mankind that has been granted power has failed its original mission. Why? Man isn't perfect, he's selfish, corrupt, wants to control his neighbor, and wants to look out for himself. Regardless of weather we have been "saved" by our religion, we are still inherently evil in nature. This is why all religion (including, and especially Naturalism and "political correctness", btw. We've seen how this religion in the form of "enlightenment" has devastated countries who accept it (i.e., the former Soviet Union)) NEEDS to be kept separate from government, as soon as it gains power, it loses all novelty or inspiration by *insert deity of choice* and becomes just another man-made government of control. In the original laws of Judaism, it was death for the king to claim the title of the high priest (claim government control of religion), and death for the high priest to claim the title of king. (Claim religiouss control of government) IMO, it needs to stay this way, the two just ain't compatible.

As far as macro-evolution goes, I'm a supporter of intelligent design. I would highly recommend you read books by Philip Johnson on the subject if you want to know my opinion; he's not very biased (as far as humanly possible) and addresses how Intelligent Design can be used in some forms to oppress as does naturalism. (He does seem to stress his Information vs. Matter argument a bit too hard but it's a very important part of ID so I can forgive him for that)

Unknown_K: The worst possible thing you can do is do is to use a hay man argument and say that all believers in God do not apply science; you'll get your ass whipped that way. Intelligent Design is *all about* using science to debate theories (neither is fact, both are entirely theoretical with a helluva lot of evidence on both sides), though you do have a point about some of the more radical, conservative religious parties using insane, unscientific arguments to back up their point. I am not one of them, and don't wish to be grouped with them. As you can see above, I do entirely agree with your position on the corruption of the church, it's in a pretty fucked up state right now.
User avatar
Bobo
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 846
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 1:54 pm
Location: Twilight Zone

Post by Bobo »

They killed Jesus, because he didn't "recover" there land. When he was born
they thought he'd be King o Jews. They didn't see. He didn't make them the all powerfull.
So they killed him.

Ever heard of the Ten Commands? Not to menchun the other zillion, nos. But that is why he
came. He knows we cannot do it.


I go by this verse - Titus 2:6-8
Similary, encourage the young men to be self controlled in everything set them an example, by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness, and soundness of speech that cannot be commended, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.
About that "no" punnishment crap. Peace loving, sometimes. "...And God sall that his people had turned agianst him...", "...He killed the old, destroyed there idols...", and "...He put a famin on the land...". Peace loving? Only if you haven't sinned! Those who have been saved shall be chacened. Those who are not saved shall not, but when I (GOD) come and they are not saved. They shall be casted into the lake of fire. So Dogbreath what cha to say to that, eh!
Webmaster- <a href="http://www.dosgames.com/~bobo">Bobo's DOSGames</a>
^ Biggest Dos 3D Shooters site in the World! :)
Total Games = <b>201</b>
Over <b>100900</b> Downloads since 2004
User avatar
486 player
Gaming Demi-god
Gaming Demi-god
Posts: 1197
Joined: Wed Sep 18, 2002 6:32 am
Location: Europe

Post by 486 player »

:Angry:
NO Windows, NO DOSBox, DOS!
User avatar
John The Ax
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1475
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:57 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Post by John The Ax »

Bobo wrote:Were only people! We often make mistakes, eh! So, some people are more corrupt then others. That person doesn't represent the Church even if he's the priest. If the priest falls you get another.

I don't believe that priests can "save" you from your sins, on what they think about your sinsareity (sin-sear-it-e). The only person who can save you is Christ!!!! Correct me if i'm wrong, but catholics think Jesus's mother is holy!!! It doen't make sence to me. Could you please explane.
Thank you bobo. And yes, I'm glad to explain. Jesus is our brother, correct? Then that would make Mary our mother. Now, in ancient Jewish society, it was the king's mother that would act as queen (not in a sexual way). If you wanted to request something of the king, it was much easier to ask the queen for the favor, for he would then be more willing to listen and do. Thusly, Mary is the queen of heaven.

Now, in ancient Jewish times, it was the Arc of the Covenant that held the ten commandments. The arc was created specifically by God's design, and was holy and pure. The vessel that held Jesus (Mary) was also needed to be nescessary and pure. Therefore, God
Image
Image
Warning: You are being watched.

GameFAQs Contributor Page
User avatar
Bobo
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 846
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 1:54 pm
Location: Twilight Zone

Post by Bobo »

John The Ax wrote: Thank you bobo. And yes, I'm glad to explain. Jesus is our brother, correct?

Wrong. Jesus is the father. God the father, God the Son, and God the holy spirit! the only way to the father is through the son. Who died on the cross. Mary isn't the queen. God made Mary pregnant. Mary and Joseph had nothing to do with the birth, well maybe Mary.... They were just to raise him. Jesus even said so.
Webmaster- <a href="http://www.dosgames.com/~bobo">Bobo's DOSGames</a>
^ Biggest Dos 3D Shooters site in the World! :)
Total Games = <b>201</b>
Over <b>100900</b> Downloads since 2004
User avatar
Thunderdog
<b>Token Black Guy</b>
<b>Token Black Guy</b>
Posts: 1737
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 9:25 pm
Location: Southeastern Japan

Post by Thunderdog »

.....I thought this topic was on the war.....
Unknown_K
Way too much free time
Way too much free time
Posts: 559
Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2002 6:55 pm

Post by Unknown_K »

Once the topic of religion comes up it takes over.
User avatar
Da_Goat
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2026
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 6:14 pm
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA, Earth, The Milky Way, The Universe, Nothing and Nowhere.

Post by Da_Goat »

Well, it's sort of tied in. After all, there's all this false accusations of Buddhists after 9/11, and all that stuff, and yeah......
User avatar
John The Ax
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1475
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:57 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Post by John The Ax »

I'm sorry. I didn't even finish my above post. Bell rang and I had to go to band.

You're right about the trinity, bobo.

John 3:16 God gave his only begotten son.

So, obviously, God the father is in heaven (Well, Jesus is there now). Because Mary is Jesus' mother, then that would make Mary our mother. You can ask any part of God for favor, Bobo. Whether it's God the father, the son, or the holy spirit. Basically, asking Mary is asking his mom to talk to him. Remember the Wedding at Canaa? Who did they ask? Jesus? No. They asked Mary, who persuaded Jesus to do it. There. It's in the bible.
Image
Image
Warning: You are being watched.

GameFAQs Contributor Page
User avatar
Dogbreath
Admin
Admin
Posts: 4620
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 7:02 pm
Location: In the back of a jacked-up Ford.

Post by Dogbreath »

Bobo wrote:They killed Jesus, because he didn't "recover" there land. When he was born
they thought he'd be King o Jews. They didn't see. He didn't make them the all powerfull.
So they killed him.
Actually, he was killed for claiming to be the King of the Jews, thus usurping the current system at the time in Israel.
Ever heard of the Ten Commands?

1. I am the Lord thy God. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me.

This commandment establishes the lordship and sovernty of God. It was to keep the people from straying to other dangourous religions at the time such as the worship of Moloch and the sacrifice of children. Instead, God said, he being the one who lead his holy people from Egypt, that they should no longer worship other Gods. Still quite effective today.

2. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain

When anyone takes the lords name in vain, they are taking the meaning and purpose of God's intentions on earth, such as the coming of Jesus and his sacrifice, lightly. This Commandment helps keep the importance and sacredness of our lord in mind. When we, as humans, take Gods role as ruler in our life and try to replace it with a human religious ruler (the Pope, for instance) we are taking his name (purpose) in vain by establishing a mortal in a place only rightly taken by the almighty God.


3. Remember thou keep the Sabbath Day.

Same intent as above, this was to establish God's place as more than a position held by a man.

4. Honor thy Father and thy Mother

This establishes the importance of the family. When this is disreguarded and taken lightly, it breaks down the very moral fabric that holds our culture together.

5. Thou shalt not kill.

This establishes that it is immoral to kill. In a society where murder is accepted either by the government or (especially) the religion, anarchy and chaos brews. (See some groups of Islam in the middle east supporting the murder of innocents, i.e, condoning terrorists. This has done far more damage than any government that supports murder could do, it has changed the hearts of the people, not the just the rulers)

6. Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Once again, if religion supports such things, the very fabric of our society is compromised by the destruction of the family.

7. Thou shalt not steal.

See above with the "murder commandment."

8. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.

Lying likewise is harmful and immoral, see above for the consequences of tolerating it.

9. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife.

10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's goods.

Essentally, be content with what you have. A materalistic society is wrong and is bound to collapse once resources run out on account of people being greedy and stealing from their neighbour what they already have/don't need.
Not to menchun the other zillion, nos. But that is why he
came. He knows we cannot do it.
Correct. Jesus died to save us from our transgression of the law which we know we cannot keep. Through his grace, we are given a second chance to achive and follow the law of God and do good to others. What that has to do with controlling and/or oppressing others I don't know. We are to uplift and free others, not beat them down with legalism.
I go by this verse - Titus 2:6-8
Similary, encourage the young men to be self controlled in everything set them an example, by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness, and soundness of speech that cannot be commended, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.
Excellent verse. It explains the core of christianity which I explained in my earlier postL good works, love, a positive and serious outlook on life, and self control. *Self* control has nothing to do with religious control from *others.* Good deeds should spring from the manifestation of our lord with in us and the love for others, not because your religious leaders force us to.

About that "no" punnishment crap.


To follow Usenet standard, please quote what you are replying to. I don't recall ever saying that the Government that God has ordained should not impose Justice amoung its people. Contrariwise, we are to submit ourselves to the higher powers that were ordained of God. (i.e, our government)
Peace loving, sometimes. "...And God sall that his people had turned agianst him...", "...He killed the old, destroyed there idols...", and "...He put a famin on the land...". Peace loving? Only if you haven't sinned! Those who have been saved shall be chacened. Those who are not saved shall not, but when I (GOD) come and they are not saved. They shall be casted into the lake of fire. So Dogbreath what cha to say to that, eh!
Look above at what you just said, *GOD* destroyed the unfaithful, *GOD* threw the people into the lake of fire. Where does it say that it is the Pope's (or preacher or preist or whoever) position to do that? God is almighty, it is he who judges, not man. We as emmisaries of the living God are to spread peace and love, God will deal with those that spite us, we should show love and forgive, leaving the judgment and punitary action to *GOD* and the powers that be, not the church or any religious order that claims the position of God. We are just men, if we place a man in the position claimed by God, we are commiting the sin of Idolitry. "Vengence is mine, *I* shall repay, sayeth the Lord"

Bobo, I know you have a good heart, but much of what you say contridicts your own religion. Think about it for a while, and choose to follow God, not any pope, bishop, priest, pastor, or any mortal that claims his place and tries to order you around at his personal whims, telling you what "God" thinks you should do. Instead, consult God personally, let him guide you through life. To quote the Palms: "The *lord* is my shepard..." let God be your guider and sustainer, don't ever let any man-made religion or philosophy distract you from *him*
User avatar
John The Ax
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1475
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:57 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Post by John The Ax »

Yep. He'll guide you down the right path. Just like he guided the other 40-some thousand people that started their own church down the right path. It doesn't work that way, as much as it says.
Image
Image
Warning: You are being watched.

GameFAQs Contributor Page
User avatar
Da_Goat
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2026
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 6:14 pm
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA, Earth, The Milky Way, The Universe, Nothing and Nowhere.

Post by Da_Goat »

So, you guys believe in the Trinity? I don't. I believe that the Father is God, the son is God's son, Jesus, and that the Holy Spirit is God's active force on all humanity. All 3 separate things.
User avatar
Dogbreath
Admin
Admin
Posts: 4620
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 7:02 pm
Location: In the back of a jacked-up Ford.

Post by Dogbreath »

Ever seen the P.O.D. emblem? At first glance, it has three distinct sides but upon closer examination, it's made out of one continuous wire. ;)

Likewise, God manifests himself in three distinct personalities, but is one spirit.

John: Sorry if that came across wrong, I wasn't saying that a pastor is useless, I was just saying that he (or any other person in our life, or even the virgin Mother) shouldn't have the place in our life reserved for God... I've seen people worship the Pope as if he were Jesus incarnate and bow down to him as the "Holy Father," which he is not. That isn't Christianity, it's Idolatry. He's just a man, the same as you or me, eligible to fail at times. As for “reaching God through Mary,” the Bible says Jesus is the mediator between God and Man, we, being the children of God, can talk to our savior and brother directly without having to have any human (no matter how holy, Mary was human, just as we are. So is our priest, our pastor, or anyone walking this Earth) to intercede for us.
User avatar
John The Ax
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1475
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:57 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Post by John The Ax »

Of course we don't take up a spot for God. We worship no one else. When it comes to the "Holy Father" thing, that's because the pope is the holy father of the church. He is our leader, the numero uno (with power standings, not counting God.) He is completely fallible except with core Church teachings. He is not anyone else, not super-human, he is just human.

Also, when it comes to the Mary "thing", what's easier? And more effective, too. Asking your mom for a favor, or asking your dad? Generally, it's your mom. We do not worship her, we just ask for some help (which goes for all of us, we all could use it). Same thing with the saints, too.

BTW, I like your trinity metaphor.
Image
Image
Warning: You are being watched.

GameFAQs Contributor Page
User avatar
Da_Goat
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2026
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 6:14 pm
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA, Earth, The Milky Way, The Universe, Nothing and Nowhere.

Post by Da_Goat »

Well, I still disagree with the Trinity.
User avatar
John The Ax
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 1475
Joined: Sun Sep 15, 2002 9:57 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA

Post by John The Ax »

That's all right. I respect anyone's religion, really. I'm not going to attack your beliefs unless you attack mine (which I doubt will happen).
Image
Image
Warning: You are being watched.

GameFAQs Contributor Page
User avatar
Da_Goat
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 2026
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 6:14 pm
Location: Prescott, Arizona, USA, Earth, The Milky Way, The Universe, Nothing and Nowhere.

Post by Da_Goat »

Well.....................I personally think that Catholics have a horrible history (especially in England), and some of their beliefs were made up by one of the Pope's in the 5th century.

But, I'll keep that to myself................oh wait................well, let's just pretend this never happened *sigh*. I personally don't care if you try to argue with my religion, as long as you don't try to force your beliefs on me.
User avatar
Thunderdog
<b>Token Black Guy</b>
<b>Token Black Guy</b>
Posts: 1737
Joined: Sat Sep 14, 2002 9:25 pm
Location: Southeastern Japan

Post by Thunderdog »

Well, I'm an Atheist, so I don't care.
Post Reply