Formula to make good games? Please post your ideas here.

General discussion for all topics related to DOS, Windows, Linux, consoles, etc. Anything to do with games.
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Post by KAN »

Eminutia wrote:
KAN wrote:Pardon the thread hijack, but how did you stop? My ex-girlfriend is (still) and addict. She has been on rehab back and forth; doesn't make her stop at all.
It's all right..look, she won't stop until something really bad happens to her that makes her want to stop. Hence the term "hitting bottom"..
Ah.... My ex gf had been hitting what others would define as "the bottom", more than once, and yet she's still an addict.

Thanks for the reply, by the way.

Eminutia wrote:That was my bottom! I pray that your sister finds hers as easily and pain-free as I found mine.
Thanks, really. I also wish you never re-lapse and having a clean living for good.

Eminutia wrote:Clean living is a million times better than using.
Definitely. I used to consume ecstasy. It's unlike crack or heroin, and I've never been addicted to it. However, after seeing what happened to my (then) girlfriend, I decided to STOP touching any drugs at all, even pots.

Now I'm still a raver sometimes (albeit a geriatric one), and I actually find dancing and raving without drugs is much better. In fact, raving with natural euphoria is much better than drugs-induced one, because now I experience the rave with full consciousness.

Now, back to gaming formula discussion........

Am I the only flightsimmer who prefers accuracy of feeling over precise realism?

Take a look at Microprose F-19 Stealth Fighter for instance: is the flight model realistic? No. Is the avionics detailed and realistic? Nope. How about the physics? Nah. The weapons? Not at all.

However, while it's not realistic, it gives the accurate feeling of flying a stealthy mission. For instance, your success is measured by how well you avoid dogfights instead of winning them. Your goal is to avoid detection, and right from the briefing you need to take into account those radar stations (or missile boats, enemy fighters, etc) to minimize your exposure, either by "threading the needle" or by flying low and slow (the latter is my more preferred method, by the way). However, certain objectives have time constraint, so too much "threading the needle" won't bring you to your target in time. Sometimes you need to find opportunity to compromise your stealth profile to reach the target before time runs out --usually in low radar concentration area.

Thus, while not being a realistic flightsim, Microprose F-19 Stealth Fighter is a quite accurate game of stealth --a game that gives you all the excitement of keeping yourself stealthy without being too complex. Solid Snake in a cockpit? Probably.

Again, am I the only flightsimmer who want to see modern flightsims being made this way?
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Post by 486 player »

1. Playability

If it uses keyboard, arrows to move and at most 4 action keys. No possibility to get stuck! (Or either to kill thyself.) Save spots near enough a hard part and after it.

2. Difficulty

Not too easy, but if player has to try 10 times the same spot and doesn't
succeed, iIt's too hard. Don't force a player to gain levels or stuff, so
(s)he could continue. Bosses can take many shots to die, but not senseless.

3. Graphics

Disk space must equal to content and features. Too much graphics gets the hard disk fulfiil fast. As less cinematics as possible and make 'em skippable!. It's better to tell a story with just text. Killin' poeple is ok, but splatterin' blood and guts not.

4. Length

Not too long. Time to clear a level not more than 20 min if possible. If thou can't save, the game shouldn't take more than 1½ h.
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Post by Eminutia »

KAN wrote:Thanks for the reply, by the way.
Hey, what are fellows for? Talk to me about either drugs or games, and you've got yourself a conversation, my friend!
KAN wrote:Thanks, really. I also wish you never re-lapse and having a clean living for good.
I hope so too. I'm not getting cravings anymore. 2 years ago I would have scoffed at the mere suggestion that I wouldn't want dope at all!
KAN wrote:Now I'm still a raver sometimes (albeit a geriatric one), and I actually find dancing and raving without drugs is much better. In fact, raving with natural euphoria is much better than drugs-induced one, because now I experience the rave with full consciousness.
How's that working for you? Loud house music is like a drug!
KAN wrote:Take a look at Microprose F-19 Stealth Fighter for instance: is the flight model realistic? No. Is the avionics detailed and realistic? Nope. How about the physics? Nah. The weapons? Not at all.
It's a fun game nonetheless. If you're making a game, aside from borrowing a physics engine, you're going to run into some realism problems. But the good story and good graphics are often the first thing that draws people in. If they made a game about that scene in Jewel Of The Nile where Michael Douglas is driving that plane on the ground and blowing people up, then blasting the wall, and firing the afterburners and wiping out into a big pile of sand, I'd play it! Good story, and good graphics! Absolutely no realism, however. But it would still be fun.
KAN wrote:Thus, while not being a realistic flightsim, Microprose F-19 Stealth Fighter is a quite accurate game of stealth --a game that gives you all the excitement of keeping yourself stealthy without being too complex. Solid Snake in a cockpit? Probably.
I heard the Falcon X.0 series is pretty realistic. Should I try it?
KAN wrote:Again, am I the only flightsimmer who want to see modern flightsims being made this way?
Nope, I would love to see a really good flightsim hit the market and make a name for itself. I don't really like new games, as you know, but I would play a good flight sim!
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Post by KAN »

486 player wrote:4. Length

Not too long. Time to clear a level not more than 20 min if possible. If thou can't save, the game shouldn't take more than 1½ h.
Agree. Grand Theft Auto is a really excellent game, but it takes about two hours to get to the next "save point". Now, if only there's mod that allows us to save game anytime....

Is there?

Eminutia wrote:Hey, what are fellows for? Talk to me about either drugs or games, and you've got yourself a conversation, my friend!
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Eminutia wrote:I'm not getting cravings anymore.
Good. I know people who still get cravings even after months of clean living.

Eminutia wrote:How's that working for you? Loud house music is like a drug!
Er, "drug-free" consciousness, actually. :laugh: But yes, trance is really intoxicating.

People said emo is the music about emotion, but IMO, I just never be able to experience anything emotoinal by listening to some random guy screaming about his life.

Trance, on the other hand, gives me much depper, more personal, and more emotional experience than any other music genres. I especially love the trance progression and/or hookline part. It can be euphoric, it can be intoxicating, and it can even bring me to the ninth heaven. Just listen to Somewhere Inside of Me or The Sun'll Shine. Pay attention to the rhytm-less part of The Sun'll Shine (near the end of the song, starting at minute 9:02), and you know what I mean. Very emotional.

And nope, I actually never need drugs to experience all the emotion associated with trance music. In fact, it feels better without drugs.

And yes, I'm still a raver. This guy, Captain Crunch, is still a raver in his sixties, so I don't see why I can't just keep raving when I get old. Geriatric raver FTW!

Eminutia wrote:It's a fun game nonetheless. If you're making a game, aside from borrowing a physics engine, you're going to run into some realism problems. But the good story and good graphics are often the first thing that draws people in.

In case of flightsims, they are meticulous flight physics and overly detailed avoinics. No wonder the flightsim genre is dead. And where's the dynamic campaign? :(

Eminutia wrote:I heard the Falcon X.0 series is pretty realistic. Should I try it?
If you're interested in dynamic campaign (Falcon 3.0) and/or full modelling of a dynamic, progressing war (Falcon 4.0), yes you should. However, I suggest turning down flight realism options. I do. :D

Total Air War is a good game when it goes to modelling a dynamic war in progress, although it doesn't have ground-based warfare.

However, Their Finest Hour and Secret Weapons of Luftwaffe should be a better start if you want dynamic campaign and strategic decisions.
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Post by Eminutia »

KAN wrote:Image
Skol!
KAN wrote:Good. I know people who still get cravings even after months of clean living.
I'm still getting nightmares though.
KAN wrote:Trance, on the other hand, gives me much depper, more personal, and more emotional experience than any other music genres. I especially love the trance progression and/or hookline part. It can be euphoric, it can be intoxicating, and it can even bring me to the ninth heaven. Just listen to Somewhere Inside of Me or The Sun'll Shine. Pay attention to the rhytm-less part of The Sun'll Shine (near the end of the song, starting at minute 9:02), and you know what I mean. Very emotional.
Yeah I heard of Tiesto but never really listened to much of his stuff. He seems pretty talented though. Never been a trance guy. More junglist/rotterdam/gabber, I used to make the stuff with Impulse Tracker. Thinking of getting back into it actually..need tuition for music school!
KAN wrote:Total Air War is a good game when it goes to modelling a dynamic war in progress, although it doesn't have ground-based warfare.

However, Their Finest Hour and Secret Weapons of Luftwaffe should be a better start if you want dynamic campaign and strategic decisions.
I've always loved simulators. I'm still playing X-Wing and it's the best one I've played. Good story, good gameplay, awesome graphics. It's the best in my books! Next on my list is the WWII simulators..I've just started Chuck Yeager's Air Combat. I got it for Christmas back in '91, and I never finished it. That first mission is a bitch, though! I'd like to try some of those Lucasarts titles though.

If you're developing a game, I wouldn't mind seeing what you've gotten so far!
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Post by KAN »

Eminutia wrote:I'm still getting nightmares though.
I heard that drug addiction is quite traumatic indeed, but I hope you'll get over it.

(by the way, it's quite ironic that it was *I* who went to drug counselors and learned few things about addiction while she didn't do shit to put herself together)

Eminutia wrote:I used to make the stuff with Impulse Tracker. Thinking of getting back into it actually..need tuition for music school!
Ah, tracker music. I wrote a couple of songs in 1993 using DOS-based MODEDIT. They were eurodance instead of trance (like those of 2Unlimited or The Real MacCoy) because it was the most popular dance genre at that time.

Too bad I saved them in 5.25" floppies.... :(

Eminutia wrote:I've always loved simulators.
Same here. If internet connection is not so shitty in Indonesia, I might challenge you for a dogfight! :)

Eminutia wrote:I'm still playing X-Wing and it's the best one I've played. Good story, good gameplay, awesome graphics. It's the best in my books!
My best is actually TIE Fighter. Yes, it is a linear game, but linear game can be really good sometimes. And the atmosphere! I'm a Star Wars fan and I always like the bad guys (the Galactic Empire) better than the good guys (the Rebel Alliance). TIE Fighter gives me my long-time dream of fighting on the side of the mighty Galactic Empire!

In a mission, I was supposed to rescue His Majesty Emperor Palpatine from the traitorous Admiral Zaarin. I succeeded (as usual), and the game rewarded me with a cut scene where I was bestowed with the medal of 'Emperor Will'. I almost gave a military salute to the monitor! The game certainly has the atmosphere.

Eminutia wrote:Next on my list is the WWII simulators..I've just started Chuck Yeager's Air Combat. I got it for Christmas back in '91, and I never finished it. That first mission is a bitch, though! I'd like to try some of those Lucasarts titles though.
Heh. Even now I still cannot finish 'The Abeville Boys' without cheating.

Eminutia wrote:If you're developing a game, I wouldn't mind seeing what you've gotten so far!
Unfortunately I'm not a game developer; I'm merely a (somewhat) disgruntled consumer when it goes to modern games.
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Post by dosraider »

KAN wrote:
Eminutia wrote:I'm still playing X-Wing and it's the best one I've played. Good story, good gameplay, awesome graphics. It's the best in my books!
My best is actually TIE Fighter.
Nope, Wing Commander 1/2/3 beats both of them.
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Post by Eminutia »

KAN wrote:(by the way, it's quite ironic that it was *I* who went to drug counselors and learned few things about addiction while she didn't do shit to put herself together)
Use that as insurance in case you get the urge to use. Just think of what it does to your bank account, your house, your family, your self-esteem, your heart, your soul, your everything!

KAN wrote:Ah, tracker music. I wrote a couple of songs in 1993 using DOS-based MODEDIT. They were eurodance instead of trance (like those of 2Unlimited or The Real MacCoy) because it was the most popular dance genre at that time.
Those were the days, man. I have so many good memories..most of them drug-related..but I did some amazing shit on my computer back then. Too bad I never kept up with the advances. At least I know I was the shit back then! :D

KAN wrote:Same here. If internet connection is not so shitty in Indonesia, I might challenge you for a dogfight! :)
What're you using, dialup?

KAN wrote:My best is actually TIE Fighter. Yes, it is a linear game, but linear game can be really good sometimes. And the atmosphere! I'm a Star Wars fan and I always like the bad guys (the Galactic Empire) better than the good guys (the Rebel Alliance). TIE Fighter gives me my long-time dream of fighting on the side of the mighty Galactic Empire!
dosraider wrote:Nope, Wing Commander 1/2/3 beats both of them.
Yeah TIE Fighter makes X-Wing look like a comparison between GTA3 and the original. But X-Wing was awesome for it's time..and I don't know about all this Wing Commander hype..I never saw the draw. I played it once and it seemed so much more basic than X-Wing..but that might have been just a first impression..

KAN wrote:In a mission, I was supposed to rescue His Majesty Emperor Palpatine from the traitorous Admiral Zaarin. I succeeded (as usual), and the game rewarded me with a cut scene where I was bestowed with the medal of 'Emperor Will'. I almost gave a military salute to the monitor! The game certainly has the atmosphere.
Aside from sex, not much comes close to the rush you get for acquiring hard-earned rewards for near-impossible space missions.

KAN wrote:Heh. Even now I still cannot finish 'The Abeville Boys' without cheating.
That's the first WWII mission, right? The one where the two planes come at you, and then 2 more like 5 minutes later, and 2 more, and so on..?

KAN wrote:Unfortunately I'm not a game developer; I'm merely a (somewhat) disgruntled consumer when it goes to modern games.
Oh I See..I thought at the beginning of this thread, you were saying that you were developing a game.
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Post by Dogbreath »

dosraider wrote:
KAN wrote:
Eminutia wrote:I'm still playing X-Wing and it's the best one I've played. Good story, good gameplay, awesome graphics. It's the best in my books!
My best is actually TIE Fighter.
Nope, Wing Commander 1/2/3 beats both of them.
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Post by Dogbreath »

dosraider wrote:
KAN wrote:
Eminutia wrote:I'm still playing X-Wing and it's the best one I've played. Good story, good gameplay, awesome graphics. It's the best in my books!
My best is actually TIE Fighter.
Nope, Wing Commander 1/2/3 beats both of them.
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Dogbreath wrote: For example, in Wing Commander, you usually play 12-15 missions in a given game, but every game not only are the missions strategically different, but the entire story plays out differently, depending on how you act. (Wingmen you meet, ships you fly, briefings, promotions, relationships, etc.)
(not that he bothered replying to any of my posts... meh)
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dosraider wrote:Nope, Wing Commander 1/2/3 beats both of them.
Nope, the Terran Confederation is nowhere as cool as this. B)

Eminutia wrote:Use that as insurance in case you get the urge to use. Just think of what it does to your bank account, your house, your family, your self-esteem, your heart, your soul, your everything!
Well, if there's something good out of the experience, I have learned so much that heroin addicts are excellent liars. Now they just cannot fool me anymore.

Eminutia wrote:Those were the days, man. I have so many good memories..most of them drug-related..but I did some amazing shit on my computer back then. Too bad I never kept up with the advances. At least I know I was the shit back then! :D
You like eurodance too? By the way, you're Dutch, aren't you?

Funny, most Indonesians are soooo intoxicated with American pop culture. Nope, not me. Whenever it goes to music, it seems my taste is more 'European'. I like trance much better than hip-hop, and I rarely give shit about MTV. My most favorite music genre is, of course, electronica, where European musicians generally do better than their American counterparts (except Moby, maybe). My favorite albums are Cafe del Mar (Spain) and Buddha Bar (France), and there's a French trip-hop band that I like so much; Telepopmusik.

Eminutia wrote:What're you using, dialup?
No, actually it's DSL which is worse than dialup when it goes to stability, and stability is more important than max speed when it goes to games. Telkom Speedy sucks balls.

Eminutia wrote:That's the first WWII mission, right? The one where the two planes come at you, and then 2 more like 5 minutes later, and 2 more, and so on..?
Yup, and they're all Me-109. Mustang is probably a better plane overall, but Me-109 is much nimbler.

By the way, you should try LucasArts WWII sims. The flight model is not really that good (in fact, arcadish), but the campaign really shines!

Eminutia wrote:Oh I See..I thought at the beginning of this thread, you were saying that you were developing a game.
Er, no. Those are all just ideas. Guess I sounded like a game developer, huh? :laugh:
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Post by dosraider »

KAN wrote: Nope, the Terran Confederation is nowhere as cool as this. B)
Euuuuuurgh... that's a movie, not a game.
:huh:

You are commercially infected.
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Post by CPT Worm »

I think the designer needs to be under the influence of something...be it alcohol or drugs.
That will lead to good games.

Or is that just music, art, and film?
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Post by Larry Laffer »

Mr. Worm wrote:I think the designer needs to be under the influence of something...be it alcohol or drugs.

Yep, but knowing them, they'll probably get wasted.

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Post by fauvem »

I knew it! Windows ME *shudders*
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spiderweb software is still around and makes isometric rpg titles. Not the best of quality but there still good. Their titles are also available for the mac. I am not an Rpg fan so me liking their Rpg's is surprising. The games don't have the higest requirements either. The games they make while graphically really aren't the best are so fun. Blades of exile has quite possibly the best rpg scenario creator ever. The only really thing I hate is the fact that the games from them have to be ordered from their site and can't be gotten in stores. I like them. The games aren't flashy and the graphics aren't the best but they seem to get the point on what makes a good game, gameplay.
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Post by Eminutia »

KAN wrote:Well, if there's something good out of the experience, I have learned so much that heroin addicts are excellent liars.
Crack addicts are worse. They will sympathetic when they found out you got robbed, when it was them that done it!
KAN wrote:You like eurodance too? By the way, you're Dutch, aren't you?
Nope I'm Irish and Scottish Canadian. But I have a German soul. I believe in good electronic music, and rough sex. :)
KAN wrote:My favorite albums are Cafe del Mar (Spain) and Buddha Bar (France), and there's a French trip-hop band that I like so much; Telepopmusik.
Ever heard of Faithless? Their track Insomnia..ever since I first heard it at E!Party (an old rave club here in Toronto), I couldn't stop listening to it. It's still my favourite track. I even remixed it years ago. But my nephew is in love with Cafe Del Mar. I've heard it once, and I didn't see the draw, but my tastes change all the time. I will listen to it again and see how I like it.
KAN wrote:
Eminutia wrote:What're you using, dialup?
No, actually it's DSL which is worse than dialup when it goes to stability, and stability is more important than max speed when it goes to games.
Oh, you play online games? What are some good ones? I tried Runescape..I liked it for a couple weeks, but then it got boring. I even payed $5 a month for a member's subscription.. I still gotta cancel with them.
KAN wrote:By the way, you should try LucasArts WWII sims. The flight model is not really that good (in fact, arcadish), but the campaign really shines!
What's a good one?
KAN wrote:Er, no. Those are all just ideas. Guess I sounded like a game developer, huh? :laugh:
Oh yeah I just looked and you said that you weren't a developer. My bad! :shame:
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Post by KAN »

Eminutia wrote:Nope I'm Irish and Scottish Canadian. But I have a German soul. I believe in good electronic music, and rough sex. :)
Ah, same here. Electronica rocks!

Eminutia wrote:Ever heard of Faithless? Their track Insomnia..ever since I first heard it at E!Party (an old rave club here in Toronto), I couldn't stop listening to it. It's still my favourite track. I even remixed it years ago. But my nephew is in love with Cafe Del Mar. I've heard it once, and I didn't see the draw, but my tastes change all the time. I will listen to it again and see how I like it.
I'll try it; is Faithless a chillout/ambient performer?
Eminutia wrote:
KAN wrote:No, actually it's DSL which is worse than dialup when it goes to stability, and stability is more important than max speed when it goes to games.
Oh, you play online games? What are some good ones? I tried Runescape..I liked it for a couple weeks, but then it got boring. I even payed $5 a month for a member's subscription.. I still gotta cancel with them.
Er, no. It is one of the reasons I don't play OL games.

Eminutia wrote:
KAN wrote:By the way, you should try LucasArts WWII sims. The flight model is not really that good (in fact, arcadish), but the campaign really shines!
What's a good one?
Both TFH and SWOTL are good, although the latter has VGA graphics and bigger assortment of planes.
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dosraider wrote:
KAN wrote: Nope, the Terran Confederation is nowhere as cool as this. B)
Euuuuuurgh... that's a movie, not a game.
:huh:

You are commercially infected.
Oookay, but still, Wing Commander doesn't have such cool execution scene. :laugh:
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Post by dosraider »

KAN wrote: Oookay, but still, Wing Commander doesn't have such cool execution scene. :laugh:
Oh no? Somewhere around 0.50 ..... at least they bleed.
wardrich wrote:The contrasts in personalities will deliver some SERIOUS lulz. I can't wait.
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