Want to talk about your hardware setup? Brag about your super-machine's layout? Pretend you know a lot about computers? You can do all that and more in this forum.
Hi! I'm JEMASCOLA, as you know. Allow me to briefly mention my computers. I have a Packard Bell Platinum 2240 with Windows 95 and a 200 MHz processor. I also have an old TeleVideo DOS computer with a 5.25" Floppy Drive and a 32MB hard drive.
Now, this TeleVideo PC doesn't have any games on it, although I want it to. It is currently running MS-DOS 3.3. On the download list, it doesn't say what DOS operating system is required and/or recommended.
So please answer this if you can: what games will run on DOS 3.3? I'm thinking a good size might be about 5-10MB, but any size is OK, as long as it's not greater than 32MB.
Indenture
Beyond Columns
Invaders 1978
Solitaire Suite
Sopwith
Star Goose
Superfly
EGA Solitaire
Grid Poker
Gripple
Jellyfish
These games oughta work on your old computer! Albeit, your computer may be too slow to run games within the 5-10 MB range you're talking about. The list above are small yet enjoyable anyway. Don't let the small size discourage you!
The easiest thing to do is find out the date your computer was made and look up when dos 3.3 was released and when the later versions (4.0?) came out. This would give you an idea of what vintage of games will work on your system without knowing the specs for each game.
With this information head out to www.mobygames.com and click on the DOS link under Personal Computers then click on the year that closely matches your machine and most of the games listed will probably run on your machine.
I know all that. MS-DOS 3.3 came out in 1987. MS-DOS 4.0 came out in 1988. I got the computer in 1984 (originally w/TeleDOS 2.11 on a floppy disk). Also, I need to mention I have MGA (monochrome graphics adapter) with green display. I found some games on DOSGAMES.COM that might work with that.
I think we're on the right track. I assume here that you are unzipping the files on the Pentium and moving them to the TeleVideo by sneaker net. And pardon the fact I don't know your command line prowess.
Help 1: Look for download sizes less than your RAM size. That worked 70% of the time in the old daze. Help 2 hint is: will the whole file fit on one floppy disk (pick your appropriate size: 180-360-720-1200-1440 kb). Help 3: If you are in need of RAM and can't find any/can't upgrade, the tricks for sucess will be in the readme file of the game, if any. Usually the RAM required will be listed, as well as the color and mono command line switchs to go with the display you have.
Now fire up the old beast and do a "mem /c/p" or "mem /p |more" (or was it "mem |more /p").... the "|" is for "pipe" key (looks like ":" but taller, even if the typed display shows a single line). Find your availible free RAM listed. Does it exceed the RAM noted in the readme? If more than the total free RAM, but less than the total RAM in the machine, you may need to edit config.sys/autoexec.bat to free some up. Add "rem" (and a space) to the front of each line you deem unneccessary and reboot. Run "Mem" again and see what you've got.
Note: If you were using DOS 5, I'd say it was time to load some things into high mem to make space. Unfortunately I don't recall 3.3 well enough to tell you what, if anything, will load into upper mem. My personal approach would therefore be to upgrade to at least DOS 5 (MS, DR or IBM-DOS are all OK for this) for a multitude of reasons. The 32mb drive will eventually make things interesting, though. And the 8088 CPU has it's own restrictions. But them's a 2ndary problem for later.
(If you DO need old RAM chips/simms/sipps, and are confident installing it, a few of us have some to spare.)
U_K, you're more up on 3.3 than me. Care to take the mike?
Last edited by johpower on Wed Feb 11, 2004 5:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sig: "The Universe is change... but it is not exact change." -Fusco Bros.
My original 286 used DOS 3.3, my current Tandy 1000HX uses 2.11 (special tandy version). Unlike dos 5,6 3.3 doesn't really have much in the way of memory management (and he probably doesnt have more then 640K memory total anyway if that). Upgrading your dos will just eat up more of your 640k memory with little in return. Most old games of that era didnt even need a mouse and ran fine on 256K of memory.
And let's have a look at your config.sys/autoexec.bat files (in the root dir c:\). It was critical to 8088/286's to get them right. Please paste them below so we can have a look and advise.
Sig: "The Universe is change... but it is not exact change." -Fusco Bros.
ECHO OFF
CLS
PROMPT $P$G
PATH C:\;C:\DOS;C:\TT;C:\TIME
GETSMART
Contents of CONFIG.SYS:
BUFFERS = 16
RAM Size (According to CHKDSK):
524K
(524,288 bytes to be precise).
The original RAM was 128K, but I increased the memory years back. I think I can upgrade to at least DOS 4.0. I found some books and you need 360K of memory, so it can probably handle that. Also, you can use a mouse with 4.0, and I found an adapter that can connect a standard mouse to a RS-232C port (old serial port). Upgrading to DOS 4.0 may give me more options, but there are still some great DOS games that may work with DOS 3.3. I'm kind of interested in some racing games or some RPGs.
With your config/exec I'm figuring that's 524kb "free" memory, not total. Gives you the standard 640kb to start. (It would've been less than 512kb total had only 512 been installed.) This is very good in an 8088 (if it's a 286, please correct me... it makes a diff).
Here are some of my old config/exec setup files of yore. I used them in DOS 5, 6, 6.22. Should be OK in 3.3. They are a good general starting place for an 8088. Before going though any changes, make a boot floppy with your old files saved in the original names so you won't be screwed.
Rename your current files to an unused file name and try these. Boot and check "mem" for results. Also look for error messages on the lines that don't work or hang the PC.
NOTE: I hope to Isis you aren't stuck with "edlin" as your only text editor. It's a real pain and one of the best reasons to get DOS 5's "edit". If so you have 3 ways around it: 1. D/L a DOS editor. They are still availible (or PM me and I'll toss you one). 2. Do the edit on your Pentium using Notepad and copy it over to the old guy. 3. Run GBASIC, if you have it. It's fine for text editing but has many options you could get in trouble with. Use with care.
NOTE 2: All info in "()" are descrips and should be left out of the text you save. And "rem" any line you won't use.
Universal Autoexec.bat
@ECHO OFF (use "echo on" for a visual confirmation of load)
PROMPT $d$t $p$g (Gives normal prompt + time and date. Remove last 4 characters if you don't want them. This is also helpful if you need to find out if your clock battery is dead, going bad.)
PATH C:\;c:\DOS;c:\temp; (Make a "temp" dir to make this work. Add any other dir's you may need. First listed = first acessed.)
SET TEMP=C:\temp (keeps temp and install files from bloating your DOS dir.)
rem c:\dos\doskey (saves keystokes for you to check errors. Un-"rem" if needed. Enter "doskey /?" for info.)
c:\mouse\mouse (assumes a mouse driver in c:\mouse)
c:\dos\dosshell (assumes you've setup this handy semi-GUI in DOS 4 or later.)
8088 Config.sys
DEVICE=C:\DOS\SETVER.EXE
FILES=10 (or 15-20 if using DOSSHELL or a menu program)
BUFFERS=10 (0r 15-20 also OK. Helps store immediate commands and printing files; speeds up response of PC.)
STACKS=8,128 (or 96 or 64. Smaller # saves mem but may not provide enough stack room. Increase if you see "stack" error screen.)
LASTDRIVE= (enter letter of drive after your last drive. This saves some mem over the default)
DEVICE=C:\DOS\EGA.SYS (enables EGA graphics driver if you have a color and mono monitor that handles better than CGA.)
DEVICE=C:\DOS\ANSI.SYS (enables ANSI graphics driver often used in ancient games.)
rem SHELL=C:\DOS\COMMAND.COM C:\DOS\ /p (tells PC where to find command.com if you get messages saying it can't be found. Un-"rem" if needed.)
BREAK=ON (helps if the PC doesn't respond quickly to keystrokes that may interrupt a process, i.e.: "control-c", etc.)
OK, that's a good bunch to work on. Concerning DOS 4: don't use it! It was buggy and unreliable (the Win95-OEM of it's day). Advance straight to DOS 5. It's worth it!!! If you need a copy, PM me.
Sig: "The Universe is change... but it is not exact change." -Fusco Bros.
I downloaded "Castle", a text-based game, and it worked perfectly. I tried Indenture, and it said "Internal stack overflow" and crashed. I may have not loaded a stack number to the comp., but I still think a computer that old runs best with text-based games. I think it is designed for those types of games.
Are there any other text-based games other than "Castle"? I also know there's a "Cribbage Solitaire" that I downloaded, but are there any others?[/i]
Stacks are reserved memory that programs use to process hardware events. A stack overflow occurs when there is not enough space in memory to run the hardware interrupt routines. To resolve these behaviors, you can modify the "STACKS=" line in the Config.sys file, eliminate terminate-and-stay-resident program (TSRs), and eliminate hardware conflicts.
The STACKS in CONFIG.SYS is for MS-DOS internal stacks.
MS-DOS uses its internal stacks when servicing interrupts.
Stack overflows occur (usually) when interrupts are happening
faster than they are serviced. Or when a user's program has
been constained in memory (but usually different symptoms).
There are some PC Magazine utilities to determine how many
stack positions are actually used to set STACKS to the proper
value.
STACKS=0,0 usually works, STACKS=9,256 is for debug
purposes (sort of) when 0,0 dosen't work.
If you want a starting place try this in config:
STACKS=64,512 ;(this is the maximum allowed)
FILES=60
BUFFERS=40
(this wastes memory some but you can then cut down the #'s till an error occurs.... good old DOS T&E)
You could run the stack monitoring utilities before (and
after) to see if something is filling the stacks
and not returning properly. However, I think you need to
see if something is taking _much_ longer to complete now than
it used to, so MS-DOS is prevented from normal operation and
can't service a recurring interrupt.
I think the error message can also be generated (in error?)
when COMMAND.COM is corrupted or reloaded incorrectly. In
that case a hard reset and cold boot to reset memory may be the only recourse. Or you may just be out of usable memory at some point in your
program.
This is where using a DOS menu boot will help lots. You can config for exactly the program type you want to run. Since it's a DOS 6.x thing, upgrade to it.
Sig: "The Universe is change... but it is not exact change." -Fusco Bros.
Similar, but not quite as big, is Text Mode Games:
