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Orda: Severnyi Veter / Horde: The Northern Wind
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:58 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

chanfort wrote:
........
I was interested about contacting some developers to find out a bit more about copyrights. I was interested to start playing the game again and record full walkthrough from beginning to end for both parts of Horde, which I would upload to YouTube or similar website. I was interested if such thing would be legal to do? .....

A game play video / walk through will not be in any way a copyright infringement.

chanfort wrote:
.........so another question could be to create somewhere a forum, where people could talk about that in much more detail. Do anyone know about such copyright things?

Same here, talking about a game even in details will not be a copryright infringement.
However just be careful with some linking towards downloadable content.
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MrFlibble
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 9:33 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

dosraider wrote:
chanfort wrote:
........
I was interested about contacting some developers to find out a bit more about copyrights. I was interested to start playing the game again and record full walkthrough from beginning to end for both parts of Horde, which I would upload to YouTube or similar website. I was interested if such thing would be legal to do? .....

A game play video / walk through will not be in any way a copyright infringement.

I've read a discussion at VOGONS about YouTube having had a lot of BS regarding copyright infringement recently, but this seems to concern monetized videos mostly.

Here's the relevant thread, started by Gemini000 of the Ancient DOS Games:
http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=37958
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chanfort
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:44 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Great to hear. I just started recording and uploading videos for Horde: Northern Wind. This will be slow and detailed walkthrough. The first video is already made:

http://youtu.be/tFcA-r_r2RQ

It take 2 hours and about 40 minutes for the first map walkthrough. Map 2 and 3 are also already made and I will upload them soon.

I used 720p resolution for YouTube and original screen is 795x595 pixels if somebody would be interested to achieve best pixel on pixel quality (YouTube seems to be stretching video to fit computer screen resolution and this affects watch quality). I find out that only Chrome and Safari were playing video with 720p, while on Firefox it was playing just with 480p. So make sure that you running on 720p.

Other 6 maps of NW I will make in upcoming days or a few weeks. So, Horde fans, get ready for long sessions with Horde on YouTube! Happy
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 12:46 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Confuzzled 2:42:28 ....... euuurrhhhhhh ...... really?
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chanfort
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 8:01 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, dosraider, that is true.

Part 2 is in now, so who finished part 1, can start part 2 Happy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxJotuQ7dpg

I created a playlist for these videos that it would be not needed always to post individual video URL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFcA-r_r2RQ&list=PLOBSjXd5DmZNbQsJHPSKTQKPWuP3byZaR

I also added some description and links to this forum and abandonia forum, that people would easier find info and discussions about this game.
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MrFlibble
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 10:40 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool, thanks for recording the English version, which I'm entirely unfamiliar with Happy I'll re-post this in a Russian old gaming forum ASAP Blissful
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chanfort
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:57 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Great. Part 3 and 4 are in.
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MrFlibble
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:55 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Cool! BTW chanfort, since your are in possession of the English version of the game, maybe you'd add info and screenshots on that to the MobyGames entry of the game?
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chanfort
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:42 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

well, I just sent message to MrFlibble. By the way, I can't recognise the map in screenshots of MobyGames. Which place is that?

Oh, and parts 6 and 7 are uploaded now.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:48 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

chanfort wrote:
By the way, I can't recognise the map in screenshots of MobyGames. Which place is that?

I was lazy and took screenshots from the demo version. BTW, this is the same map as the one that is used in the non-playable demonstration in the full game.
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chanfort
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:41 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

oh, ok. So coming back to unanswered questions, does anyone have sense how large these horde maps can be in kilometers?
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MrFlibble
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:16 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that the only way to get an estimate of the size is to count how many steps a unit takes to get from one tile to an adjacent one, and use an average value of an adult's step length to calculate the size of a single tile. Then count the number of tiles on a map and multiply the number of tiles in a row/column by the tile size value you got.
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chanfort
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:43 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

umm, it would be one of several ways, but I am not sure if it would be correct. Many things in the game are scaled not very proportionally. For example human size is very similar to tree size. The main issue why I worried about scaling for global map is that I am not sure if such large rivers can be so close in real nature.

I suspect roughly that the (level 1) map should be somewhere between 10 and 50 km in reality, what would lead roughly gameplay maps to be between 1 and 5 km.

I am wondering about these things as I am thinking about possibility to create a game (but on Unity), which would be like Horde or something similar. Do anyone know if such think would be legal to do?
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:25 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

chanfort wrote:
I am wondering about these things as I am thinking about possibility to create a game (but on Unity), which would be like Horde or something similar. Do anyone know if such think would be legal to do?

Depends.

If it's "loosely based" on .... and at least mentioned or credited as 'based on' in a readme or such, can do.

If it's copycat : nope, not really, don't do.

... or you should take the 'true remake' road ... ?
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Quadko
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:29 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never heard anyone having a problem creating a new game like an old game, especially if it's in a different style engine. Directly stealing graphics or name is a no-no, but creating similar graphics and using similar storyline happens all the time with no problem.

(Of course, exact laws differ by locale, but these seem to cover the general western-euro based world...)

Honestly, don't let anything like that or like exact scale hold you back. Make what you like, make it so it's fun, and you should be good. If you have to tweak from there, no problem. Getting it made is the first task, like a first draft of a book - get it out there! It's a very exciting idea, go for it!
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MrFlibble
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:08 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Quadko wrote:
Honestly, don't let anything like that or like exact scale hold you back. Make what you like, make it so it's fun, and you should be good. If you have to tweak from there, no problem. Getting it made is the first task, like a first draft of a book - get it out there! It's a very exciting idea, go for it!

Totally agree with this. After all, if you need to choose between playability and realism in a game, it would only be natural to go for playability.

[Edit] What I did not bother to do when I was submitting the Horde entry at MobyGames was to look up archived copies of Buka's website (English version).

Here's the earliest snapshot of the English Horde page:
http://www.buka.com/scripts/game.asp?id=9

Already there's some interesting info regarding a possible English demo:
Quote:
Demo:
  • Demo-version - 11,3 Mbytes (in English)
    Download, unZIP and run .pif file:
    start.pif - starts with no sound
    orda.pif - sound present
    Note: Horde a is legacy dos application
    http://{temporary unavailable}
  • Demo-version - 14Mb (in Russian)
    http://download.buka.ru/orda/OrdaDemo.zip


A later snapshot indicates an updated English demo was supposedly available:
Quote:
Demo:

Unfortunately the Wayback Machine did not preserve the demo file, but at least we know it existed.
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chanfort
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:58 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

well, I think I have scent about playability and realism. Many developers complaining that it is hard to fill huge maps in such level that game would be intensively playable. So they deciding to take smaller maps. However, I think that this problem is not caused by map size, but more by leak of ideas. Playability and realism could be nicely combined together - just not need to rush to get game advertised and released faster with the goal to obtain maximum amount of attention from players, who will play such game...

So 10 - 50 km natural looking map can be made playable if there would be enough activities to do while traveling long distances.

I got a bit worried about things which I could make similar to Horde if it wouldn't be agains copyright. For example I am not sure if it would be good to use Horde map, or it would be better to create similar map, lets say a map not with 7 rivers, but with 9 rivers. More specific I was very inspired by wizards in Horde, which are using natural looking attack - lightning with staff as well as falling rocks from cursed mountains, opening pits in the ground, shock waves from cursed spruce trees, etc. I haven't seen any other game, where magic and magical attacks would be based on such natural environments. The only other example could be Lord of the Rings films, where for magic were also used natural environments (shock waves, light, etc.). So now it is very important moment - I want to include such natural environments in my game - lets say wizard performing lightning strike from his stuff, like in Horde - would it be against copyrights or not?
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Quadko
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:08 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you are free to do all that. Ideas can't be copyrighted, just created works.

The big way to get in trouble with copyrights is to take images, sounds, or code from somewhere that didn't give you permission. You can stay out of trouble by using free graphics and sound (found around the net), or just by creating your own. If your map is identical to a game map, but you didn't copy the image and instead created it yourself, you are fine; if you use a tune similar or identical to the game, but you created it rather than took the recording, you are fine; etc., etc.

(NB: these are rules of thumbs, I am not a lawyer. But even remakes of games, etc. all seem to do OK, and people only seem to get in trouble if they take rather than remake!)
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chanfort
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:21 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, now it is much more clear about copyright things. So I will do something what will be similar to Horde in Unity with 3d and as much realism as possible. Anyways, if somebody would be interested to help with this game development, post me a message.

Continuing about Horde: Northern Wind, I just finished this walkthrough - so there are 10 videos of it. Look at my playlist link, which I posted in one of previous posts.
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:09 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Added this info
chanfort wrote:

I created a playlist for these videos that it would be not needed always to post individual video URL:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFcA-r_r2RQ&list=PLOBSjXd5DmZNbQsJHPSKTQKPWuP3byZaR

to first post.

FYI: it's possible to add this info in your signature ......
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