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Ah me...... poor Indian.
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GAMER
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:03 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Santhosh wrote:
Maybe if you were here you would understand more the intense feelings growing here and why I'm reacting like this.


That is exactly my point.
This makes me so mad that i can't put everything i want to say into a nicely formed argument, but why don't you consider putting yourself in my, or Cmaza or Wally's position? If YOU were HERE, you would understand that your argument is rediculous. I have never denied that the attacks have happened, but i will deny that ALL were racially motivated. Particularly the attacks on students at Newcastle University, which i know A LOT about. I went to Newcastle University for two years. Students get attacked there. Students are vulnerable and easy targets. Foreign students are even more vulnerable because they do not know the area. They are EASY targets because of their dislocation but are not targeted primarily for it.

The attacks on cab drivers are similar. Cab drivers are vulnerable - they pick up drunk youths and drive them around alone. Many cab drivers are attacked every night because of anti-social behaviour and drunken youths being unable to afford fares, or wanting to rob them. The fact that many cab drivers here are Indian, increases the chances of one of these incidences involving an Indian.

Your statement about the attacks involving racial slurs does not neccisarily confirm a racial motivation behind the attacks. When a person is angry or hoping to threaten someone they will choose offensive words. If they were attacking a woman, they may use words like [MA15+] slut, or whore. This does not mean that the woman was targeted because of her sex. This is just ammunition to use against her.

I'd also like someone to supply you with the statistics of how many Australian's were killed in your country last year. Then maybe you can think about how the Australian members of this forum have treated you, and spoken about your country? We respect you, and your country, regardless how many Australians have died on your shores at the hands of your countrymen.

And to say that our Government is refusing to do anything? Every person apprehended for these attacks has been sentenced in a court of law. An article in my local paper this morning discussed the shame these individuals have made Australia feel.

Finally, should we judge you for the worst of your country? There are attrocities in your country that we do not hold you, or your government personally responsible for. I am highly offended by the way you have acted. You have shown blatant and unreasonable hatred for a country which you have not visited, and disrespect for Australians in this very forum who have been nothing but kind and supportive of you.

The reason i have stayed in this community for so long (going on 7 or 8 years now) is because i believe that we are a true example of multiculture. I've spoken about how much this forum brings together different cultures and bridges gaps created by media and the loss of truth. I strongly believed that my generation would grow up interconnected with other countries via this sort of interpersonal communication and would change the world because we understood one another... But this has made me realise i was being naiive. Someone like you, personally knowing so many Australians should not be able to say the things you have. It really upsets me that you haven't learned anything about us or our country by being here.

Cool GAMER
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Cmaza
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:59 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

GAMER wrote:
but why don't you consider putting yourself in my, or Cmaza or Wally's position?


*nods*

I agree with what you're saying. I've actually been reading this thread very closely over the past few days, but I've avoided posting, mostly, because IMO, it smells like a flamewar waiting to happen, and I've been involved in enough of those in the past to know that it can never end well, I'll probably make myself look like an ass, and I'm honestly too busy these days to put in the energy required to do so.. <.<

That, and.. whatever; You get what I'm saying. I'll give my argument now, but, it's unlikely I'll post on this thread on a regular basis, as, well, I don't have the energy for a flamewar.

But yeah, I agree with what you're saying.

Santhosh CHRiS wrote:
If they aren't racially motivated how come you only hear about Indians being killed or attacked all the time there these days??


Well.. evidence would suggest that it's *not* only Indians you hear about. Infact, there are many people from many various cultures attacked on a regular basis in every country around the world, Australia included. So far as Australia is concerned, rarely, is it racially motivated Australia *does* have some very seriously issues with anti-social behaviour, most of which spans from a combination of alcohol, substance and drug abuse and a generally increase in, well, anti-social attitudes and behaviour in the population in general, and this leads to attacks, but very rarely is this racial. One of my closest friends, who happens to be white, was stabbed in the eye with a screw-driver a few months back, in a completely random and unprovoked attack, by a drunk person I'm unaware of what the drunk person's ethnicity was, but that it beside the point. My friend was white, it got into the newspapers and on TV, but his ethnicity was not brought up. However, it is common with foreigners, when attacked in Australia, that when it is reported, their ethnicity is stated and emphasized this is, unfortunately, the way news organisations tend to behave here.

Something I *will* say. What you must understand about news organisations, is that they are essentially businesses they are going to report whatever they feel will generate the most money, and bad news, sensationalised news or news which causes conflict or anger, sells better than happy or good news. Stating which ethnicity an attack victim is, so long as not overtly racist in itself (ie, "White" or "Black" person was attacked), usually causes more people to read the article, for whatever reason. And more readers == more money.

It is for this reason, that newspapers tend to care more about issues at home than issues overseas. 9/11 was reported on.. I have no idea how much, but, it was a lot. On the contrary, I clearly recall an earthquake that killed something like 40,000 in Iran that happened within a week or two or 9/11, and though I read it on numerous online newspapers and news site, I didn't ever see it *once* on TV, radio or anything else, so most people in my area probably were unaware of the event. 9/11 happened in America, and Americans care about themselves more than other countries every country cares about themselves more than any other country. This is not racism.. this is just common sense, and normal. People, generally care about themselves more than other people. This earthquake, likely, was not reported on, because everyone was busy reporting on 9/11, which, with 3,000 victims, was a lot less severe, but happened to a country that Australia has closer relations with, thus, greater news interest, and thus, greater financial return for the news organisations. It isn't fair to everyone, but, it is not racism.

Now. Regarding some of the recent attacks on Indians here. For example, Nitin Garg. I recall reading that he was attacked (I think this was him? It may have been one of the others.. not sure. I don't have the article on hand to confirm, but I think it was him), rather late at night, walking home, through a secluded park that didn't have much visibility? Seriously. I feel sorry for the guy and I do not in any way implore the attack, but you *don't* go walking through dark parks, late at night, in the middle of Melbourne, unless you're willing to take these risks. Most people here *know* these things and do not engage in such activities. I, myself, am a seventh generation white Australian, and I do not do these things. Heck, there's certain days of the week at certain hours of the day that I absolutely refuse to enter certain suburbs, even with friends, even in the main street of the suburb or in the main business districts there are some places that you don't go and some things that you don't do, regardless of who you are. Recently, my social life has plummeted, because I've opted to avoid some of the areas that I once would regularly visit with friends for social occasions, due to the increased levels of anti-social behaviour in the area I no longer feel safe in those areas. And, I remind you, that I am white, and that these problems exist irrespective of ethnic background.

Santhose If you visited Australia and decided to walk through a dark alley, in some deserted street in the middle of the night, in an area renowned for violence, you would be at a high risk of being attacked.

Ignorance is the greatest contributer to racism, and if one understands the situation correctly and acknowledges all the facts, racism becomes very rare. Ignorance is *also* the greatest cause of risks and dangers in Australia – if you're aware of what to do and not to do, you'll usually avoid the not-to-do's, and thus, are at less risk of danger. Many tourists will come and explore the Australian outback, because they hear great stories about it, but do not prepare adequately, and thus, get themselves into numerous troubles – their car breaks down in the middle of nowhere and they become isolated, they run out of water and die from dehydration, they fall off a cliffe and break a leg or break their neck and die, they get eaten by a crocodile and etcetera.. All these things, can be avoided, and a wonderful, safe and pleasant holiday can be had, with adequate preparation, which one will usually do if they are not ignorant of their situation, surroundings and what they plan to do.

Would you run in front of a moving train if you saw it coming, even if it meant you could get home quicker than by walking under the subway a few meters away? No; Because you know that running in front of a train would probably kill you. You know this, because you are not ignorant of the behaviour and nature of moving trains (so I hope). Equally, you shouldn't do things or go to places that have a high risk of resulting in your being attacked.

Anyhow, I think my point has been made, so I'll leave it at that.
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Dogbreath
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 6:24 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'd also like someone to supply you with the statistics of how many Australian's were killed in your country last year.


I couldn't find any easily accessible stats on murders in India that break up victims by nationality. If you want random cases (which is what Santhosh is using), Google is your friend.

I can't read Hindi, so likely official government bulletins that would have that level of detail are off limits to me. Maybe Santhosh could help? I really hope the recent incidents in Australia don't cause any retaliation strikes against tourists.

Quote:
I've actually been reading this thread very closely over the past few days, but I've avoided posting, mostly, because IMO, it smells like a flamewar waiting to happen, and I've been involved in enough of those in the past to know that it can never end well, I'll probably make myself look like an ass, and I'm honestly too busy these days to put in the energy required to do so.. <.<


I try and give myself 15 minutes to stop and think about a post or do other things before replying to it, so I can calm down and think a bit clearer. I think the worst insult I actually posted here was calling Santhosh thickheaded, and that was a bit much. So far this has been pretty civil, if heated.

I hope I don't come out looking like an asshole to you, these sort of threads do have a tendency of making everyone look rather dumb.

In another forum I post on, one member quite literally challenged another to a duel. They were talking about how they should start shooting each other if they ever met by the time the moderator locked the thread.
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GAMER
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:48 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I've had to erase many things i've typed before leaving and coming back again to respond.

I've said some harsh things too that were perhaps silly of me, but i stand by my argument.

Google is my friend, it seems. This article should highlight for you how much the media sensationalises. It is a sad thing that people are killed, but they are killed everywhere, by horrible people. This article is a gross misrepresentation of your people, is it not? and of your government? maybe then, just maybe, the reports you've read regarding these horrible incidences are exaggerated and sensationalised too? maybe the facts are distorted? [For the record, i mean no disrespect to the victim in this article or his family]

I will agree with Cmaza that Australia DOES have a problem with anti-social behaviour especially in relation to drug and alcohol fuelled violence, but again, this does not represent our entire country nor our government. It is a horrible thing that innocent people are killed, but it is a worse thing that it can bring MORE hate.

Cool GAMER
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Wally
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2010 6:39 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree about the drug and Alcohol fuelled violence (Last night, A guy who was toasted got extremely violent because he apparently didn't want a taxi home (He did ask the bar tender but she's a bit of a angry anderson anyway) and started to fight with some randoms).

I feel that Generation Y takes drinking too seriously and consume wayy too much in the pubs, it makes me feel a bit unsafe at times but thats an completely unrelated matter.

Generation Y also don't give a flying shit about anything that their elders say.
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Santhosh CHRiS
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 2:56 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw this in Yahoo news today...

http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20100124/900/twl-despite-protests-anti-indian-hate-gr.html

Really sad and depressing. Sad

Sad because these sort of racist groups against Indians exist and depressing because of Facebook's lack of action to remove them for good despite the combined efforts by both Aussies and Indians to stop them.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2008/12/12/1228585086888.html
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Cmaza
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:48 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen those sort of groups floating around on Facebook before, and it's pretty bad; Also, maybe it's just me, I don't know, but, there seems to be an alarmingly high number of racist groups against Malaysians, including those promoting actions that I'd rather not repeat here; It's very sad that this is happening and is one of the main reasons I have very little respect for Facebook as an organisation, and even more sad that many of the LAWS regarding online business and online activities are *not* being upheld by the countries with jurisdiction over Facebook, namely, America, which is ironically the country that promoted the creation of most of these laws in the first place; But, it's not limited to just racism - I've seen a lot of groups on Facebook with highly questionable material, including one, that I kid you not, about promoting and discussing ways to bring down governments, including ways in which to effectively incite riots and etcetera, which I'm fairly sure would be in contravention of more than one of our current international anti-terrorism laws, yet, these groups are allowed to flourish. Something needs to be done about this, and if the relevant governments aren't seeing to it that their respective law enforcement agencies aren't enforcing the relevant laws that should be preventing these sort of things from happening in the first place, I think we've got worse problems than racism on our hands. But, that's nothing particularly new to our ears, is it? Not to sound pessimistic, ofcourse, but, reality does have that way of reducing one's opinion of humanity in rather drastic ways. Mind you, on the flip side, there are many people around the world that are adamantly against these sort of racist and illegal activities, so we can have some satisfaction in the knowledge that not everyone is like that.
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Santhosh CHRiS
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:42 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

I just heard on the News 2 more Indian students were attacked in Melbourne just yesterday making this the 8th such incident in a fortnight Sad

http://www.hindu.com/2010/01/27/stories/2010012757300100.htm

Please hope and pray things stay calm as possible here because to be frank I think Australia is infact handling the situation much better than India and the media is at the moment. Maybe because we are further away and things seem much worse than they really are. I dunno but I just really hope Indian Australian relations do not worsen in any way because of this resulting in a cold war between our Nations, and all efforts are taken to stop the attacks or at least lessen it a bit soon.
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:25 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, the more you post about those things the more you fuel and give weird ideas to some idiots .....
It only makes them interesting in their own distorted world ....
Just saying.
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Larry Laffer
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:34 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

dosraider wrote:
You know, the more you post about those things the more you fuel and give weird ideas to some idiots .....
It only makes them interesting in their own distorted world ....
Just saying.


And you wouldn't want Wally to go outside and into society and into an indian murdering spree!!!
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2010 11:38 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

This really does suck. However, Australia should be one of the safest countries in the world, so it can't be that big of a deal.

We can only hope it's worth the potential problems surrounding it.
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:15 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Larry Laffer wrote:
And you wouldn't want Wally to go outside and into society and ....

They keep Wally chained on the wall, don't they?
Yes they do, a short chain.
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Larry Laffer
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:47 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

dosraider wrote:
Larry Laffer wrote:
And you wouldn't want Wally to go outside and into society and ....

They keep Wally chained on the wall, don't they?
Yes they do, a short chain.


That didn't stop the guy from 5 Days a Stranger, did it?
No it didn't.
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Santhosh CHRiS
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:35 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

10 more Indians attacked in Melbourne and Brisbane. Australian High Commissioner has been summoned to New Delhi. Things are going from bad to worse Sad

http://www.ndtv.com/news/world/attacks_on_indians_australian_envoy_summoned.php
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:57 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Santhosh CHRiS wrote:
10 more Indians ....

10 more ....?
Know what, maybe there are too much Indians in Aussie country after all ....

/Joky (and yes, a bad one.)
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Santhosh CHRiS
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 2:15 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

dosraider wrote:
Santhosh CHRiS wrote:
10 more Indians ....

10 more ....?
Know what, maybe there are too much Indians in Aussie country after all ....

/Joky (and yes, a bad one.)


Aw.. you could never make a bad joke.. come to think of it... you can't make a joke period Laughing

But seriously posting this stuff here has made things a little lighter for me... like I'm just unloading some of my worries and burdens and I think I can get through this with a little help from my friends from the West. I just hope Aussie and Indian governments stay friends and maintain good relations through these tough times. We can barely handle our situation with the Pakistan government right now brrr.. so cold...s..s.so c..c.cold!
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Wally
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:17 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you really believe the media? I heard nothing of it.

Look at these pages

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=indian+pizza+boy+attacked&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 they're mostly in india

but when I flip to Australia ususally the major news sources would jump on these like no tomorrow
http://www.google.com.au/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=indian+pizza+boy+attacked&btnG=Google+Search&meta=cr%3DcountryAU&aq=f&oq=

I call false allegations

also

http://www.ndtv.com/news/world/10_more_indians_attacked_in_australia.php

vs

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CDkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.oneindia.in%2F2010%2F01%2F28%2Ffour-more-indians-attacked-in-australia-report.html&ei=5_1hS6aiHNCGkAX5yqXuCw&usg=AFQjCNFWfKaQet3Ph6dYyLBb_OAbG38IKg&sig2=g35a8gmo1mB3jc776lMDng

Exaggeration.

Never believe the media unless you can be SURE.
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:23 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Bookmark this Wally:
http://tinyurl.com/

ya n00b ....
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Santhosh CHRiS
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:30 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Wally wrote:

I call false allegations


I hope for both of our countries sake they are false allegations. Happy
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Wally
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2010 4:09 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

dosraider wrote:
Bookmark this Wally:
http://tinyurl.com/

ya n00b ....


Totally forgot about that one hahaha and whats with googles weird links.
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