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A message board to talk about DOS games, get help, and find old games.
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Kazer0
Mercenary Dishwasher
Joined: 17 Sep 2002
Posts: 2720
Location: In an igloo with my pet penguin, eh?
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 Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:56 pm
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I dont agree that Floppy's are reliable either, but I don't agree with CDs being very reliable either. Neither do I rely on USB Keys. I have a bunch of points to make here from this topic. Standby while I go through them.
Floppys break easy, sure, but they are damn useful for small files like documents and pictures, as well as small programs for any computer science high school course, or a database or two from any computer buisness course. Almost all computers in schools have floppy drives for this purpose, and my courses even REQUIRED 2 or more floppy disks. No where in any school have I ever come across a CD burner that students could use. Wally, do not make up facts like that. Floppys are still incredibly useful in schools and at home for files like mentioned above. Moreso than a CD or DVD, even if it is rewritable. MACs removing Floppy drives was a horrid idea. I remember we had to stop using the computers in my grade school when we got iMacs. We couldnt save any documents, there was just no way to save them securly.
As for new Dell PCs comming out with no floppy drive, that is only by default. When you buy a PC, you are given the option to have one, and the cases still have the port for you to put one in yourself.
As for Wally saying he prefers a $20 External Floppy. Wow, what a horribly made up comment that completely destroys your own argument. Why wouldnt you take the $3 internal floppy that DOESNT use a USB port, DOESNT take up desk space, DOESNT need to be installed, and DOESNT have such a high risk of breakage/loss?
As per wally saying Backups on Floppy was a rediculous idea. Welcome to the year 2005 you ditz. You really think were that stupid? We know that backing up on CD is a better option. You dont need to make obvious points in the hope that it will make you seem smarter than you are. If you want to get technical, creating a backup partition is a better idea than using a CD. Look, you lose on that point too.
As for saying you cant say that Windows 2000 is more stable than XP. Well, actually you can. It does depend a lot on the hardware, but Windows 2000 uses less complicated, and less userfriendly programs than Windows XP. Just the themes alone in XP cause minor instability problems. Mind you, the diffrence is faint, but still there.
Ah yes, my favorite comment yet. Wally's "A G5 IS SUPER LEET COMPARED TO A PENTIUM 7!!!!". Ha ha, wow. What, are you desperate for points to argue now? Why dont you look up the AMD X2 processor please. 64-bit dual core, which is more than a G5 can boast. Mind you, it does seem faster because Mac OSX (Which is still BSD/Linux, despite what you think) runs on lower resources than Windows. And if your precious Mac OSX is so great, why are Apple switching from IBM/Motorola processors (The makers of the G5/G4/PowerPC, etc) to Intel processors, and releasing Mac OSX x86 edition? Hum, seems the Macs are becoming PCs.
"AFIAK windows XP is just a beefed up version of 2000 " Finally, a point that is almost correct. XP is indeed a beefed up version of 2000, but in the same way that 2000 is a beefed up version of WinNT. Why? Because they run on the NT core.
And my last points an up point. It was said that arguing this was futule. Well know what? Guess who decides when it gets locked (or unlocked)? Thats right, I do. Last time I checked, I was the head moderator in Hardware back in the day, and still am.
And yes Wally, despite what you may think, I do know more than you can imaging about Hardware (And software for that matter). I do not claim to know everything, or even a lot, but I know enough to know that almost every point you make is wrong.
Now im not saying Macs suck. In fact, they are stable machines, and do great photo/video editing. However, the world of gaming, processing, coding, and overall use belongs in the world of the PC. |
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GameMaster.EXE
Way too much free time
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 705
Location: North Texas, USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:57 pm
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| dr_st wrote: | | The claim that floppy disks are reliable is downright ridiculous. These things die if you look at them funny. You can have a brand new floppy, format it, copy one file on it, bring it to the PC next door and - boom - data error, file corrupted, try to reformat floppy, track 0 unusable, throw floppy to garbage bin. And old floppies tend to develop "sector not found" errors and just plain bad sectors. You can treat a floppy right and it will still die on you. And that's unreliable in my book. Of course, with all that, I still find them useful for the exact same things mentioned earlier - moving small files in the absense (or unusability) of a flash disk. |
Speak for yourself. I find floppy disks usefull, depending on the situation. True, CD-ROM's have more space on them, but touch one with a greasy finger and-boom- it's messed up. Floppy disks aren't as vunerable and you don't have to carry it around in a case. Just keep it away from magnets and it will be just fine. Those 5.34 floppy disks are the real problem, they are bigger but have less space than a 3.5 floppy's and are just as vunerable as CD-ROM's. |
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dr_st
Lord of Gaming
Joined: 23 Jun 2004
Posts: 309
Location: Absorbed into Clayface
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:27 pm
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| Kazer0 wrote: | | As for saying you cant say that Windows 2000 is more stable than XP. Well, actually you can. It does depend a lot on the hardware, but Windows 2000 uses less complicated, and less userfriendly programs than Windows XP. Just the themes alone in XP cause minor instability problems. Mind you, the diffrence is faint, but still there. |
Depends a lot on the hardware, you have it there. XP is superior to 2K when it comes to modern hardware, and it causes it to be even more stable most of the time.
| GameMaster.EXE wrote: | | touch one with a greasy finger and-boom- it's messed up. |
Not necessarily. If you clean the dirt carefully it may still be in perfect working order. Scratches will kill it, though.
| GameMaster.EXE wrote: | | Those 5.34 floppy disks are the real problem, they are bigger but have less space than a 3.5 floppy's and are just as vunerable as CD-ROM's. |
True dat, but since these old 5.25" disks and the devices that read them are all but extinct, it's not a real issue. |
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GameMaster.EXE
Way too much free time
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 705
Location: North Texas, USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 5:56 pm
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What I'm trying to say here is CD-ROM's are not bad, they are very usefull but so are floppy disks. They both have there disadvantages. 45 years from now and we have real tiny CD-ROM's the size of one of your toes called BETAROMS and some forum having this same arguement but getting nowhere.
Floppy disks are the first generation of memory storage, and CD-ROM's are the next. Technology is improving everyday, and so is computers. (dosraider's attitude is not  ) It doesn't matter if someone likes floppy disks better than a CD, or vice-versa, because someday CD's are going to be just as outdated.
So get with the flow, people. The REAL issue is PC vs MAC. I want to see the outcome..... |
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Kazer0
Mercenary Dishwasher
Joined: 17 Sep 2002
Posts: 2720
Location: In an igloo with my pet penguin, eh?
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:50 pm
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" want to see the outcome....."
The outcome will always be the same, despite what wally thinks. For games and overall use, a PC is better than a MAC. Apple is changing their computers towards an x86 base because they know this.
However, MACs do have the advantages in the video and picture editing department. |
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Wally
i r teh pwnage
Joined: 01 May 2003
Posts: 4031
Location: Australia, earth, Milky way
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| Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:36 pm
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| Gaming department isnt that strong and i agree with you there. I think when the macs go intel it will encourage gaming departments to make games as the porting process will be easier |
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Kazer0
Mercenary Dishwasher
Joined: 17 Sep 2002
Posts: 2720
Location: In an igloo with my pet penguin, eh?
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| Posted: Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:07 pm
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| Wally*Won_Kenobie wrote: | | Gaming department isnt that strong and i agree with you there. I think when the macs go intel it will encourage gaming departments to make games as the porting process will be easier |
Wow.... just wow. Will you PLEASE stop making up information and hopeing that it's correct?
The gaming department is the fastest growing department in computers, and is also what brings in the most money. Todays gaming video cards are more complex and expensive than any other computer part. Its one of the largest hauls of money. Go look it up. Newest Processor: $800. Newest Graphics Card: $1200. |
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WishboneDawn
Experienced Member
Joined: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 69
Location: Eastern Canada
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:32 am
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| Wally*Won_Kenobie wrote: | There is no such thing as a pentium 7 i know but i am refering to the G5 processor here.
2) IF you were to use floppy disks for backup up stuff well you are crazy.. Cds are more reliable if you get the right brand an all
AFIAK windows XP is just a beefed up version of 2000
Dogbreath: If i was to ever buy a packet of floppies again i would die.. Im sticking to USB memory. i would rather have 1 memory stick (128mb) to 88.8 floppy disks |
Dramatic, eh?
Who needs 88 floppies? I need 2 for Windows boot disks, half a dozen for drivers, a few for small, older games. When it comes to things that take up very little room, they're perfect. When I needed to get my Pentium up and running it would not have happened without a floppy. The diagnostic software I ran on my old 1.2 gig HD was on a floppy (RIP little failing HD).
It's precisely the small amount of space they have that makes them useful. And without them a lot of older PC's would fast be rendered unusable (How to get my Pentium's CD ROM DOS drivers installed without a newer internet computer that had a floppy drive?).
But I'm getting the impression that with you, this isn't really about the practical uses of a floppy drive as a pissing contest where all that matters is size. |
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jmmijo
Lord of Gaming
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 225
Location: PDX
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:35 am
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| Sovi3t wrote: | Who said anything about using floppies for backups? If you were to use it for backups, a good floppy will last you 20 years, a CD 30.
Just because you prefer to use a USB drive doesn't mean you are always able to use it. Many computers are still running W98 or lower... which means your USB drive will either not work at all, or you'll have to carry a drivers CD (...or floppy?) around with you.
Fixing computers requires you to have some floppies because the older computers won't boot up from a USB drive or CD. |
Actually, I do believe that most floppy disc manufacturers only warranted their media for like uo to (10)Ten years. Really after that something called bit-rot starts to occur, well actually even sooner then that many times 
As for manufacturers of both CD/DVD-R/RW media, well that's being warranted for something like 100+ years.
Now, let me clarify this point; I don't expect these companies to be around of course and even if they are, something new and better will come along before then and I'll just transition my data from the current optical media to the latest optical/solid-state or what ever blank/storage media comes along
Also, this talk about x86 PC's vs MAC is interesting however, you are all missing the one machine which IMHO was the best and set the GOLD STANDARD for micro's:
The AMIGA by Commodore Business Machines  |
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Wally
i r teh pwnage
Joined: 01 May 2003
Posts: 4031
Location: Australia, earth, Milky way
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:20 pm
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Amiga i cant really remember but i am sure i used it in the primary school days.. Does it have Sticky Bear catching the balls on it?
With the mac you dont require a floppy disk to fix but however is optional.. You can use 1 floppy which boots up into the OS with no real limits excepting it is slow (Mac Os 7.5 lower) same with the Mac OS 8 up but hence you use the install CD which contains Repair tools and again boots to the GUI..
Alternatively, you can boot powerbooks (Laptops whatever) via SCSI disk mode which is rather powerful and allows you to mount the computer onto the other machines desktop via SCSI (Oldern times) Now since that method was so popular it is implemented across all macs and you can boot from firewire..
Kazer0: Mac video cards surely would fit with users gaming standards as they use aTi technology also hold a rather LARGE amount of video memory
Most PC users are still stuck with 32 bit addressing or they have 64 bit chips but really have no use for them as nothing is made for 64 bit these days..
The powermac G5 has a 64 bit processor and also runs on a *non beta* 64 bit OS and runs 64 bit apps if it must..
http://www.apple.com/powermac/ for the G5
and http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics for the graphics thats either a 128mb or 256 mb card that is built into the machine. Since Pcs only have flimsy 64mb intel extreme graphic built in and which M$ trys to make their own drivers for and stuffs the graphics up all together then you have a problem  |
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Kazer0
Mercenary Dishwasher
Joined: 17 Sep 2002
Posts: 2720
Location: In an igloo with my pet penguin, eh?
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 10:14 pm
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| Wally*Won_Kenobie wrote: | Amiga i cant really remember but i am sure i used it in the primary school days.. Does it have Sticky Bear catching the balls on it?
With the mac you dont require a floppy disk to fix but however is optional.. You can use 1 floppy which boots up into the OS with no real limits excepting it is slow (Mac Os 7.5 lower) same with the Mac OS 8 up but hence you use the install CD which contains Repair tools and again boots to the GUI..
Alternatively, you can boot powerbooks (Laptops whatever) via SCSI disk mode which is rather powerful and allows you to mount the computer onto the other machines desktop via SCSI (Oldern times) Now since that method was so popular it is implemented across all macs and you can boot from firewire..
Kazer0: Mac video cards surely would fit with users gaming standards as they use aTi technology also hold a rather LARGE amount of video memory
Most PC users are still stuck with 32 bit addressing or they have 64 bit chips but really have no use for them as nothing is made for 64 bit these days..
The powermac G5 has a 64 bit processor and also runs on a *non beta* 64 bit OS and runs 64 bit apps if it must..
http://www.apple.com/powermac/ for the G5
and http://www.apple.com/powermac/graphics for the graphics thats either a 128mb or 256 mb card that is built into the machine. Since Pcs only have flimsy 64mb intel extreme graphic built in and which M$ trys to make their own drivers for and stuffs the graphics up all together then you have a problem |
Ah ha ha, your a joke now. First off, I didnt appreciate having to go to your sources to find a 404, and searching for it myself to prove you wrong.
Your super duper power mac graphics: "Radeon 9650". This is their top of the line model? The 96xx series from ATi is 2 generations behind. And it is, in fact, a card inside the machine. For $2000, a machine with a Radeon 9650 isnt worth anything.
And comparing it to onboard graphics is humiliating. Any decent computer comes with a graphics card installed. And they still cost under $800. The latest graphics cards are all PC, and 2 generations ahead of Macintosh. Infact, 128mb and 256mb cards are getting old for PCs, the high end cards are now 512mb.
My video card in my computer right now is better than your top of the line Mac one, and I paid $10 for it. Low and behold my Radeon 9800Pro 128mb video card.
And you cant say that its so great with ATi, as nVidia is ahead of ATi at the moment with the most advanced technology, their 7800GTX 256mb video card. |
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Wally
i r teh pwnage
Joined: 01 May 2003
Posts: 4031
Location: Australia, earth, Milky way
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| Posted: Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:38 pm
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| Err none of those URLS 404 on me |
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Dosser
Way too much free time
Joined: 02 Jan 2005
Posts: 471
Location: BEHIND YOU
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 12:18 am
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| One of the links works for me, but PowerMac Graphics cannot be found. |
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jmmijo
Lord of Gaming
Joined: 16 Oct 2002
Posts: 225
Location: PDX
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| Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 1:39 am
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| Wally*Won_Kenobie wrote: | | Err none of those URLS 404 on me |
I have to agree with Wally on this one, I can get to both links using Maxthon.
I do however have to say that an ATi Radeon 92xx/96xx/97xx/98xx series graphics card is a decent one, albeit a generation behind and soon to be two, it's not really bleeding edge now is it
I prefer the Radeon X700 or X800 Pro graphics cards instead, these can be had for a decent price for sure. Why I purchased the X700 Pro at CompUSA in a retail box for $200. |
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Wally's Right
Newbie
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Posts: 4
Location: Omnipresent
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| Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:14 pm
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| Kazer0 wrote: |
Floppys break easy, sure, but they are damn useful for small files like documents and pictures, as well as small programs for any computer science high school course, or a database or two from any computer buisness course. Almost all computers in schools have floppy drives for this purpose, and my courses even REQUIRED 2 or more floppy disks. No where in any school have I ever come across a CD burner that students could use. Wally, do not make up facts like that. Floppys are still incredibly useful in schools and at home for files like mentioned above. Moreso than a CD or DVD, even if it is rewritable. MACs removing Floppy drives was a horrid idea. I remember we had to stop using the computers in my grade school when we got iMacs. We couldnt save any documents, there was just no way to save them securly. |
There was no way to securely save files on the iMac? Are you an idiot?
Since when do you have to store files on a floppy in order for them to be secure?
| Kazer0 wrote: | | As per wally saying Backups on Floppy was a rediculous idea. Welcome to the year 2005 you ditz. You really think were that stupid? We know that backing up on CD is a better option. You dont need to make obvious points in the hope that it will make you seem smarter than you are. If you want to get technical, creating a backup partition is a better idea than using a CD. Look, you lose on that point too. |
Welcome to reality, Kazer0! Backing up files on a "backup partition" is a stupid idea. It doesn't protect you from mechanical failure with the drive. For secure and reliable backups, you need to store copies offsite.
Yes, brainiac, you could copy your files to an external hard drive and move your external hard drive around from place to place... but, CDs or DVDs would be much better. Alternatively, backing up files to a remote server would be an even better idea. Although, the server would need to have backups as well.
Wally gets the points -- You get nothing.
| Kazer0 wrote: | | Ah yes, my favorite comment yet. Wally's "A G5 IS SUPER LEET COMPARED TO A PENTIUM 7!!!!". Ha ha, wow. What, are you desperate for points to argue now? Why dont you look up the AMD X2 processor please. 64-bit dual core, which is more than a G5 can boast. Mind you, it does seem faster because Mac OSX (Which is still BSD/Linux, despite what you think) runs on lower resources than Windows. And if your precious Mac OSX is so great, why are Apple switching from IBM/Motorola processors (The makers of the G5/G4/PowerPC, etc) to Intel processors, and releasing Mac OSX x86 edition? Hum, seems the Macs are becoming PCs. |
You really need to do your homework, Kazer0! Welcome to the year 2005 you ditz! Firstly, Motorola does not manufacture processors any longer. They sold off their semiconducter business to FreeScale. The PowerPC processors are manufactured by IBM and Freescale, and NOT by IBM/Motorola. So you lose points there too, Kazer0.
Secondly, the switch from PowerPC processors to x86 processors says nothing about how good or bad Mac OS X is. The reality is that Mac OS X runs faster on Intel chips than it does on PPC chips. Get your facts straight, dude!
| Kazer0 wrote: | | And my last points an up point. It was said that arguing this was futule. Well know what? Guess who decides when it gets locked (or unlocked)? Thats right, I do. Last time I checked, I was the head moderator in Hardware back in the day, and still am. |
Congratulations on the "head mod" job. Your folks must be quite proud of you. Quick, is that the President calling? Why yes it is, you're getting a medal! Lucky you! We're all just so jealous!
| Kazer0 wrote: | | And yes Wally, despite what you may think, I do know more than you can imaging about Hardware (And software for that matter). I do not claim to know everything, or even a lot, but I know enough to know that almost every point you make is wrong. |
Not so fast slick! Wally was right on several points and you were wrong on several points. Next time you wanna call somebody an idiot, look in the mirror!!!
| Kazer0 wrote: | | Now im not saying Macs suck. In fact, they are stable machines, and do great photo/video editing. However, the world of gaming, processing, coding, and overall use belongs in the world of the PC. |
Sorry Kazer0, you're wrong here too. The PC beats the Mac in the world of gaming, but that's it! The Mac is just as good as the PC, if not better than the PC, in virtually every other area of computing.
You're not quite as knowledgeable as you profess to be, slick! |
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