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Can't get dos games to detect ISA AWE64
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3headedmonkey
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 8:41 am     Post subject: Can't get dos games to detect ISA AWE64 Reply with quote

I'm building a system for old dos games, and I can't get the ISA AWE64 PNP (CT4500) card I've got to work in dos. The system I'm using has onboard ESS 1869 sound which can emulate SB Pro fine, but it's a bit crap so I wanted to replace it. The AWE64 works in Win98SE once I've disabled the onboard sound in the control panel, but dos games keep detecting the onboard sound and not the AWE64. I've tried fiddling with the SET BLASTER line but no dice. What's worse, the mobo has no jumper settings for disabling onboard sound, and there's no option to disable it in the BIOS. Help!
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dr_st
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:18 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

1) Look better for an option to disable the onboard sound. I don't believe it can't be disabled.

2) In DOS - have you run CTCM.EXE? Without it no one will detect any Creative PnP cards.
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Roger
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:02 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

What brand and model is your motherboard, 3headedmonkey?
The enable/disable OnBoard Audio should be located under "Intergrated Peripherials" menu in BIOS.
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3headedmonkey
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:42 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. Motherboard is Compaq proprietary, in a Compaq AP400. Looks like I don't need to disable the onboard sound after all because I've got the card working, JUST. It isn't perfect though, the games I've tried will only use it as a standard SB16, which means rubbish midi. Duke3D will allow AWE32 in the setup but in-game the music is distorted and the game eventually crashes.

What steps should I take to set it up properly? Can anyone give me an example autoexec.bat/config.sys? I got the CD drive working which was a chore, but I'm not sure whether my config is set up correctly otherwise. I have no idea how to set up memory correctly. These are the files on the bootdisk I'm using:

autoexec.bat
---------------
@ECHO OFF
LH /L:1 MOUSE.COM
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 T3 P330 H6 E620
C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:IDECD000
SET CTSYN=C:\dosdrv
prompt $p$g

config.sys
-----------
NUMLOCK=ON
BREAK=ON
DOS=HIGH,UMB,NOAUTO
FILESHIGH=40
FCBSHIGH=1,0
BUFFERSHIGH=30,0
LASTDRIVEHIGH=J
STACKSHIGH=9,256
DEVICE=C:\CDROM\AOATAPI.SYS /D:IDECD000 /P:1F0,14
DEVICE=A:\HIMEM.SYS /V
DEVICE=A:\EMM386.EXE RAM /MIN=0 I=B000-B7FF /V
SHELL=A:\COMMAND.COM A:\ /E:1024 /P
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dr_st
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 2:43 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's what I suggest to do with your Config.Sys:

Reorganize it so that the first lines are:

DEVICE=HIMEM.SYS
DEVICE=EMM386.EXE
DOS=HIGH,UMB

Then, make sure the CDROM line says:

DEVICEHIGH=C:\CDROMAOATAPI.SYS

Either than that it seems OK, even though I never understood people with numlock on.

Autoexec.bat seems fine, but run CTCM.EXE!
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:34 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Wouldn't you consider a dualboot dos/win98?
And while you're on it on dos a multiconfig boot?(menuitem...etc..)
Some games demand EMS (sounds in falcon3...) but others don't work with EMS (comanche1....) ,it is handy to set up a multiconfig system.
Msdos came with all the (printable) helpfiles.

LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSCDEX.EXE /D:IDECD000
the loadhigh command should also work on mscdex.exe
The numlock is indeed a dinausorcommand and since long time been taken care of in the bios.
I also would advise you to put your mouse line AFTER the mscdex line, the mscdex will need more mem than your mouse, better always load the more demanding program first.
A interessant command after your boot is:
mem/c/p
You will see your memory usage and what doesn't load properly high causing a eventual diminued (precious) base memory.
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 3:47 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

This is my old config and autoexec from my RIP (snif snif) P2/400
I got if i remember oké about 603 kb base mem free in standard boot.
Also i must say i don't use msdos 6.22 anymore, switched to dos 7.10, it gives me now 623 kb ( !! ) free base memory.The drivers are much improved and you get full fat32 support.

config.sys(dos 6.2)

[MENU]
MENUCOLOR=14,1
MENUITEM=1_A_STANDAARD,STANDAARD
MENUITEM=1_B_STANDAARDNOCDROM,STANDAARD NO CD-ROM
MENUITEM=1_C_MAXMEMCD,MAX MEMORY WITH CD-ROM--QWERTY
MENUITEM=1_D_MAXMEMNOCD,MAX MEMORY NO CD-ROM--QWERTY
MENUITEM=1_E_STANDAARDEMS,STANDAARD WITH EMS

[1_A_STANDAARD]
DEVICE=C:\windows\HIMEM.SYS /VERBOSE
DEVICE=C:\windows\EMM386.EXE NOEMS HIGHSCAN
DOS=HIGH,UMB
BUFFERS=15,0
FILES=30
LASTDRIVE=I
SHELL=C:\DOS\COMMAND.COM C:\DOS\ /P
COUNTRY=032,,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS
DEVICEHIGH =C:\CDROMDRV\ATAPICD.SYS /D:CD003

[1_B_STANDAARDNOCDROM]
DEVICE=c:\windows\himem.sys /VERBOSE
DEVICE=c:\windows\emm386.EXE NOEMS HIGHSCAN
DOS=HIGH,UMB
BUFFERS=15,0
FILES=30
LASTDRIVE=I
SHELL=C:\DOS\COMMAND.COM C:\DOS\ /P
COUNTRY=032,,C:\DOS\COUNTRY.SYS

[1_C_MAXMEMCD]
DEVICE=C:\windows\HIMEM.SYS /VERBOSE
DEVICE=C:\windows\EMM386.EXE NOEMS HIGHSCAN
DOS=HIGH,UMB
BUFFERS=15,0
FILES=30
LASTDRIVE=I
SHELL=C:\DOS\COMMAND.COM C:\DOS\ /P
DEVICEHIGH =C:\CDROMDRV\ATAPICD.SYS /D:CD003

[1_D_MAXMEMNOCD]
DEVICE=C:\windows\HIMEM.SYS /VERBOSE
DEVICE=C:\windows\EMM386.EXE NOEMS HIGHSCAN
DOS=HIGH,UMB
BUFFERS=15,0
FILES=30
LASTDRIVE=I
SHELL=C:\DOS\COMMAND.COM C:\DOS\ /P

[1_E_STANDAARDEMS]
DEVICE=C:\windows\HIMEM.SYS /VERBOSE
DEVICE=C:\windows\EMM386.EXE 8192 RAM /verbose
DOS=HIGH,UMB
BUFFERS=15,0
FILES=30
LASTDRIVE=I
SHELL=C:\DOS\COMMAND.COM C:\DOS\ /P
DEVICEHIGH =C:\CDROMDRV\ATAPICD.SYS /D:CD003

************************************************************
autoexec:


C:\a3sound\a3init.exe
PROMPT $P$G
PATH=C:\;C:\DOS;c:\windows;
SET TEMP=C:\TEMP
SET TMP=C:\TEMP
GOTO %CONFIG%

:1_A_STANDAARD
LH c:\windows\smartdrv.EXE /L /X 1024 512 /V
LH c:\windows\mscdex.EXE /S /V /D:CD003 /M:5
LH C:\DOS\IMOUSE.COM
LH C:\DOS\NLSFUNC
LH C:\DOS\KEYB BE,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS
GOTO EINDE

:1_B_STANDAARDNOCDROM
LH c:\windows\smartdrv.EXE /L /X 1024 512 /V
LH C:\DOS\IMOUSE.COM
LH C:\DOS\NLSFUNC
LH C:\DOS\KEYB BE,,C:\DOS\KEYBOARD.SYS
GOTO EINDE

:1_C_MAXMEMCD
LH c:\windows\smartdrv.EXE /L /X 1024 512 /V
LH c:\windows\mscdex.EXE /S /V /D:CD003 /M:5
LH C:\DOS\IMOUSE.COM
GOTO EINDE

:1_D_MAXMEMNOCD
LH C:\DOS\IMOUSE.COM
GOTO EINDE

:1_E_STANDAARDEMS
LH c:\windows\smartdrv.EXE /L /X 1024 512 /V
LH c:\windows\mscdex.EXE /S /V /D:CD003 /M:5
GOTO EINDE


:EINDE
VERIFY ON
BREAK ON
@CLS
@ECHO............................[ SYSTEM READY TO GO ]..........................

Always at your service, as long as you remember:
THE NEXT BEER IS ON YOU. Shit-Eating Grin
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dr_st
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 10:44 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Wouldn't you consider a dualboot dos/win98?


FOR THE LOVE OF GOD - WHY???

Quote:
And while you're on it on dos a multiconfig boot?(menuitem...etc..)


I tried that for a while and then I realized that it's mostly a nuisance (just like a DOS/W98 boot). I found a configuration that works with the complete majority of the games, and for the few that don't like it, the raw configuration (press F5) seems to work. Then again, it can prove useful in some cases, without a doubt.

Quote:
Also i must say i don't use msdos 6.22 anymore, switched to dos 7.10, it gives me now 623 kb ( !! ) free base memory.


I get 624kb if I disable double-buffering, 621kb otherwise. Tbbbbbth!

P.S. Thanks for the cool hints.
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:13 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD - WHY???
WHY NOT?

"I realized that it's mostly a nuisance (just like a DOS/W98 boot). "
It doesn't bother me at all.

Maybe it is because we have a different interest in games, i am more the flying or/and shooting type.
Falcon 3.0 (original) needs EMS for speech , Comanche1 (original) won't work with EMS, etcetera.......examples enough that you need seperate boots.Sometimes it seems that every single game needs a different configuration.

Why not multiboot? I have 2 HD's 2X80= 160 Gigs,
dos 7.10=400 Mb
Win98SE=1.5 Gigs
Win XP=15 Gigs
and a "swap" partition fat32 =20 Gigs
and some other partitions....
Plenty space to waste, so why not use it ?
I never got falcon3 running smoothly on win98 with the speech on, in dos no problem.

The fact is : Ask 10 people and you get 10 diff' answers.
Maybe it is because i started in dos, at that time there was no other option (yes wally there were mac's, but not in my budget at that time :Angry: ).

Also i don't have the space to have more then 1 pc ,so multiboot and multiconfig, and i have something to keep me busy the long winterevenings.
Take a good look at the "get games to work" section,most of the questions and problems doesn't occur on a multibootsystem.Dosbox is a nice program indeed, but doesn't replace fully plain dos.
And last but not least : hell wat a speed in plain dos on a modern pc !!!It is a rocket !

Greetings
Cool

Edit: also an other consideration (for me personal that one) .
In belgium we use a azerty keyboard, your F5 is nice but gives me a qwerty keyboard layout, and that's a pain in the ass ,believe me. Sad
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Gamer_V
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 12:57 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Just put a layer over it (keyboard), or put a line in your config.sys.

I couldn't typ with azerty.
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:01 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

A layer gamer_*5*? hell and purgatory together. :Angry:
The problem isn't the usual : \ m azw , you learn that soon enough, the problems are <>,? @&+- and other not so common key's.
And a layer really sucks, have you ever tried to work with one?
That's one for the complain topic, yes it is ! Crying
A line in the config.sys ? We talk about F5 , my config and autoexec are blank in win98, you don't think i gona setup a dos in win98 when i have a dosboot? Forbidding
Anyway , enough discussed the subject , 3headedmonkey shall have to take his own conclusions ,like everybody and decide for himself the what and/or how, at the end we are all on ourselfs.He will have to decide what's suitable for him (or her?) and apply it , and also make the best from it.
Good luck 3headedmonkey ! Happy
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dr_st
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 1:25 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Because I don't see what's the point in having two operating systems, when you can get by with one. Fact is - every DOS game runs under Windows 98's DOS, provided you set up the memory managers and drivers properly, which you can of course do.

Well, maybe this Falcon3 doesn't run, as you claim. I'd happily try it, if you tell me where I can get it with speech and all.

BTW, Win98's DOS is often referred to as DOS 7.10. I assume you are talking about a different DOS 7.10.

The point I'd like to make here is that, having messed up with multiboot and multiconfig configurations myself, I've reached the conclusion that in 99% of the cases it's not needed, and therefore I wouldn't recommend it to anyone in advance. Only if he reached the point when it's required.
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 4:45 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

It is like a religion discussion, every pro you can give i can reply with a contra and vice versa...............no ending to it.
I don't like XP, never had and never will...BUT, a dvd iso is about 4.5 gigs, and win 98 stops at a file size about 4 gigs (fat32 limitation)..
yes iknow i can set a higher comppression, but when i burn a dvd i want excellent quality , otherwise i use vidtape.

Dr_st if you want i send you falcon 3.0 ,i don't know where you could find it on the net, it's the first and original version.Just pm me your boxadr with enough space for 4x1.44 flops and 1x720kb flop.

The dos 7.10 i talking about is the improved version of the one shipped with win98, updated drivers.The server providing them seems to have disapeared,can't reach the server anymore, snif...but if you want the install disks ,just say and i send them to you (2x1.44Mb).They contain a full setup.exe.
Happy
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2005 12:32 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

dr_st, watch your mailbox.... Happy
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3headedmonkey
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 10:57 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, thought I'd need to bump for such an awkward question. Thanks for the replies. I DO see the point of a dual-boot DOS/98. Boot disks are hella slow and generally inconvenient, and fiddling with the 98 autoexec/config is out of the question because it screws up all kinds of things.

My other options are to use 98's DOS which I don't like because it can cause problems with sound detection, or set up programs in 98 to boot into DOS which is slow and so defeats the object altogether.

The current autoexec/config I posted above works OK with most games, but Space Quest IV complained that there was a lack of memory (yeah, I know it works in 98 but it isn't as good). Funny how the games that gave me problems on my good ol' 486DX2/66 (which I sold Crying) are still giving me problems 10 years later. Flamin' sierra games were always a pain in the neck with their dodgy sound support and timer issues. It's fun to be using DOS again though.
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dr_st
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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2005 2:22 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Look, if you want to run a dual-boot, or even triple-boot, that's fine, but don't badmouth the OS when it doesn't deserve it. Setting up proper Config/Autoexec for DOS games using Win98's DOS doesn't screw anything, and everything runs.

However, I think I might understand the problem you're talking about with sound detection (only applies to Creative cards) - it's caused by a bug in CTCM, making it think that you're inside Windows, while you're not. Easily fixed by a simple change of two bytes inside the executable (CTCM.EXE and CTCW.EXE) using a hex editor.
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3headedmonkey
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 7:21 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't badmouthing the OS. I was being completely indifferent. In fact, I like 98SE. I've used it for years and it's certainly the best of the 9xs. I do assume that you're talking about SE and not plain 98, because that really was a bad OS.

I did NOT say that setting up autoexec/config in windows screws things up, but that it is inconvenient, which it is. Booting up into 98, then clicking a program shortcut, then waiting for the system to reboot into DOS is a pain. I'd rather use a boot disk or a separate partition. What I DID say screws things up is running apps in a DOS window inside 98 or ANY version of windows, which is a completely different thing. Although DOS windows in 9x are true dos, it's generally a bad idea to run DOS games with a load of crap running in the background. They were not desgined to be run that way any problems DO arise, usually in installation and/or sound detection.

Thanks for the advice on CTCM though. I think you may be onto something and I'll check it out when I get home
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dr_st
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 9:31 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

You're not doing it right, then.

The way to do it is to set your main (on C:\) Config/Autoexec properly for DOS games, then put BootGUI=0 in MSDOS.SYS, and Windows will not load on startup - you're in PURE DOS, play all the game you want. Then to load Windows, you just type WIN. And if you want to play a DOS game after being in Windows, you just reboot, without any special configurations, bootdisks, boot managers or crap like that.

This is the shortest and most convenient way to do it, because no matter how many operating systems you install and how many of these are pure DOS, once you're inside Windows, the only way to get out of it is reboot.

A while ago I posted my startup files on Abandonia - here they are:

MSDOS.SYS

[Paths]
WinDir=G:\WINDOWS
WinBootDir=G:\WINDOWS
HostWinBootDrv=G

[Options]
BootMulti=1
BootGUI=0
BootMenu=0
DoubleBuffer=0
Logo=0
AutoScan=0
WinVer=4.10.2222

This way Windows doesn't load on startup (and I don't even see its logo).

CONFIG.SYS

DOS=HIGH,UMB
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOSW\HIMEM.SYS
DEVICEHIGH=C:\DOSW\EMM386.EXE RAM I=B400-B7FF I=CA00-CBFF AUTO
BUFFERS=20
FILES=60
LASTDRIVE=Z
STACKS=9,128
BREAK=ON
SHELL=C:\COMMAND.COM /E:512 /P
DEVICEHIGH=C:\CDROM\VIDECDD.SYS /D:IDECDROM

The extra EMM switches give me EMS loads of free upper memory. The CDROM driver I use takes only 5K of RAM.

AUTOEXEC.BAT

@ECHO OFF
LH C:\DOSW\MSCDEX.EXE /D:IDECDROM /E
LH C:\DOSW\SMARTDRV.EXE /X /B:1024
LH C:\DOSW\DOSKEY.COM /INSERT
LH C:\MOUSE\CTMOUSE.EXE /R33 /3
LH C:\NAV\NAVTSR30.EXE
SET COMSPEC=C:\COMMAND.COM
SET COPYCMD=/-Y
SET DIRCMD=/P/O:GEN/A
SET PATH=C:\BATCH;C:\DOSW;G:\WINDOWS;G:\WINDOWS\COMMAND;
C:\NC5;C:\NAV;C:\XTG;C:\CDROM;C:\PV;C:\ARCHIVE;C:\MOUSE;
C:\DOSUTIL;C:\SB16;C:\NETDRV
SET PROMPT=$P$G
SET TEMP=C:\TEMP
SET SOUND=C:\SB16
SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 T6
C:\SB16\CTCME.EXE
C:\SB16\MIXERSET.EXE /P /Q
C:\DOSUTIL\FASTKEYS.COM
C:
CD\
CLS

Loads all the drivers I need, initializes everything I need, and I still end up with around 620K of free conventional memory.

Note that I load CTCME, not CTCM - which is my own special "hacked" version that works properly under Win98's DOS. If CTCM refuses to run in pure Win98 DOS, claiming that you're inside Windows - that's the solution.

Very few games have problem with the above configuration. When a certain DOS game doesn't run on that machine of mine, in 99% it's hardware-related (fast CPU - K6-475 or new video card - Voodoo 3000).
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3headedmonkey
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 1:31 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The way to do it is to set your main (on C:\) Config/Autoexec properly for DOS games, then put BootGUI=0 in MSDOS.SYS, and Windows will not load on startup - you're in PURE DOS, play all the game you want. Then to load Windows, you just type WIN. And if you want to play a DOS game after being in Windows, you just reboot, without any special configurations, bootdisks, boot managers or crap like that.


I've used that command before, and I see where you're coming from, but I prefer to boot into windows. I'll be using windows more than DOS, so it doesn't make sense for me. Those extra EMM switches are exactly what I need though, and I'll try them. Thanks.

I'll be getting the unwanted insides of an old PC this week, with a P90 and 16MB RAM. Might put Win3.1 on it and mess about before selling. If I can find a place to keep it it'd make a great setup for older DOS games. Happy
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dr_st
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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2005 2:43 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Even if you use Windows more than DOS (hey, I do to!) it still make sense, because to load Windows all you need to do is type three letters and hit Enter. On the other hand, should you want to play a DOS game, you already have got everything configured and you only need to reboot from Windows.

Do note, that the EMM switches are a bit tricky. They don't work on all machines properly, they don't work with all games properly (can lead to crashes) and they don't always provide the same amount of upper memory.

Through trial and error and some help from others I found that these two switches work perfectly on my machine and don't have problems with any games I play regularly.

Most people would put I=B000-B7FF there, but I found it causes crashes in more games that I=B400-B7FF, and although it leaves you with less upper memory free, I still get enough to load every device driver and TSR I need there and stay with 620K+ of conventional free.
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