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Connecting 2 home computers for Heretic/Doom
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Minnie
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:30 pm     Post subject: Connecting 2 home computers for Heretic/Doom Reply with quote

I remember seeing neighbors years ago whose children had computers linked by a cable. They were chasing each other up and down the halls, turning each other into pigs or chickens, and doing a lot of laughing playing it.

I have 2 old computers and the Heretic/Hexen games. How do i connect these together and what commands in what directory should be used?

I don't know what else to ask about the procedure at the moment, but time may change that. Thanks for any help and hints.
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Minnie
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 4:34 pm     Post subject: I see that a null modem cable is needed. Reply with quote

It seems probable that a 9 pin null modem cable connects the two computers.
The readme file talks of connecting on the internet with something called dwango, but I am not sure of what is set up for two computers in the same room, or what is called for on what computer first. Or second.
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pseudocoder
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:25 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

IIRC, the serial port requires two dos programs Intersvr and Interlink. I don't know if I can post links, but you can read about them here: http://www.pcxt-micro.com/dos-interlink.html

It's been years, since I played with stuff like this, but if you access to ethernet cards for each pc, then you can use a hub and assign static IPs for each computer on the lan. I used dos networking, which you can mill over here: http://www.windowsnetworking.com/j_helmig/doscltcp.htm

HTH
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tienkhoanguyen
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:51 pm     Post subject: On a side note............ Reply with quote

pseudocoder wrote:
IIRC, the serial port requires two dos programs Intersvr and Interlink. I don't know if I can post links, but you can read about them here: http://www.pcxt-micro.com/dos-interlink.html

It's been years, since I played with stuff like this, but if you access to ethernet cards for each pc, then you can use a hub and assign static IPs for each computer on the lan. I used dos networking, which you can mill over here: http://www.windowsnetworking.com/j_helmig/doscltcp.htm

HTH


@pseudocoder: Thank you for helping out.

You would not happen to be the same pseudocoder on www.programmersheaven.com would you?
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Minnie
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:42 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, pseudocoderso, much for the information! From the first link I don't understand the "G" drive, or how to tell what com port the serial cable is connected to... yet. Or how to tell what the fat is on each PC. But I am a stubborn 80 yr old gramma that speaks pretty good DOS, and have some 6.22 disks, so that should help.

I noticed the 'hub' reference. Would a hub be necessary with only 2 PC's with a cable between? Is this hub something mechanical? I apologize for being so uneducated in all this.
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tienkhoanguyen
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 12:00 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Minnie wrote:
Thanks, pseudocoderso, much for the information! From the first link I don't understand the "G" drive, or how to tell what com port the serial cable is connected to... yet. Or how to tell what the fat is on each PC. But I am a stubborn 80 yr old gramma that speaks pretty good DOS, and have some 6.22 disks, so that should help.

I noticed the 'hub' reference. Would a hub be necessary with only 2 PC's with a cable between? Is this hub something mechanical? I apologize for being so uneducated in all this.


Hi Ma'am,

I tried reading it and understanding it. However, the posts is pretty long so I couldn't make anything from it at this point.

I just wanted to say my grandma is 87 years old. So I'm just wanta say "Hi" since I feel a resemblance between you and my own grandma.

Anyways, I hope someone can help you out. If it is the pseudocoder from the other forum that I mentioned he/she is a great person. He knows his stuffs so you are good to go. I just was too preachy for him. However he helped me out where he could and I never forgot him. I hope it is him.

In either case, if it is a different pseudocoder than it seems you are in good hands with it anyways.
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pseudocoder
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:29 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Minnie wrote:
Thanks, pseudocoderso, much for the information! From the first link I don't understand the "G" drive, or how to tell what com port the serial cable is connected to... yet. Or how to tell what the fat is on each PC. But I am a stubborn 80 yr old gramma that speaks pretty good DOS, and have some 6.22 disks, so that should help.

I noticed the 'hub' reference. Would a hub be necessary with only 2 PC's with a cable between? Is this hub something mechanical? I apologize for being so uneducated in all this.

The drive in this case would be your hard drive letter and not G:. Fat refers to the file system used. In pure dos, I believe it was fat 16. I don't think the latter would affect what you're wanting to do though.

As I remember, either cable to cable setup whether its serial or ethernet needs a cross-over cable. That is, there are a pair of wires on one end that differ from normal cables that one would buy in a store or come with a piece of equipment like a modem or printer. You can probably find them in local stores or online... the serial cable is a null modem cable. I think the ethernet cable is called a cross-over.

I steered you wrong with intersvr and interlink, I think. It's been a super long time since I've used pure dos. You'd probably need a program specifically written to do what you'd like. You might try milling over the page here: http://www.doomworld.com/classicdoom/utils/multi.php

In my experience, using a 4 port hub (for ethernet - LAN) makes things easier and one can use existing cables. The tradeoff with ethernet is requiring a device driver written for pure dos to use with the ethernet card.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to a pure dos machine, so I cannot try this out myself. I hope that you're able to configure your machines though... it's a fun way to play. Happy

@tienkhoanguyen - Tis the same poster. I found this place by way of your old post at PH. Tbbbbbth!

I just was too preachy for him you're way too hard on yourself. fact is that I'm not really that sociable. I disappear for long stretches not because of anyone, but because I have other things that occupy my time. Shit-Eating Grin

Best regards
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MrFlibble
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 7:04 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there pseudocoder, and welcome to these parts! Blissful

Thanks a lot for providing advice on the tech stuff, much appreciated!
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tienkhoanguyen
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 9:58 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

@pseudocoder:

MrFlibble is the DOS games DEMO person. So if you needed something to fun to do in DOS, he could probably find you a game that costs you nothing and is some fun for you! (mod)

Quadko is another person around here that is quite knowledgeable especially about old games. So if you are looking for an oldie and goodie Q could probably find that game for you.

DOS Wolf is a strict guy however he is in the military once. Just respect him and he gives you the same.

Emmzee is the head honcho around here. He just got married. Laughing (owner of the website)

Wally is tough on me because I am goofy however he means well. (mod)

Wardrich comes off as good hearted for some reason. (mod)

Anyways, for the time I have been here I am catching on trying to help people. Learning to be a member of the community is pretty tough especially after being a loner all my 40 years Benevolent

I hope you like it here and find all the members loving and pretty much king Laughing Celebratory
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Minnie
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 10:28 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

I went to the Doom site and downloaded a file that is supposed to help with computers connected with a null modem cable. Thanks!

But quote ..4 port hub (for ethernet - LAN)
Is that assuming I have computers in the house already connected together?
Which I don't.
However in looking at my old laptop, there is a connection for a phone line, but on granddaughter's old 1993? Win 3.1 PC, which she made me keep for "sentimental shooting gremlins with gramma" reasons, there is no phone line input. I had a pure DOS, 20 meg Zenith PC at work, $5000 in 1988, hooked to a mainframe but apparently didn't get on the internet until 1996. Sorry for babbling here....but I am working with old computers that love the old dos games.

I will research this hub some more. Will try this serial cable first.Have one ordered from ebay. But now, being chief cook and hotel for Thanksgiving, will put all on the back burner for a few days. Happy Thanksgiving all!

Maybe magic will happen and something will mysteriously connect with this zip file, cable and/ or the modem driver site listed there.


I wonder, too, with a hub, if that Dwango program in Heretic would work. Is working with a hub considered 'networking' ?
Also if I could find the same model laptop I have would it help in the connectivity?

.
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wardrich
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:03 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Minnie:

If it's Doom you want to get networked, I would suggest looking into modern hacks like Skulltag or Zdoom. They update a lot of things including standard LAN support

How old are the two computers that you're trying to network?


Last edited by wardrich on Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MrFlibble
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:05 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure if this could be helpful, but a very long time ago I used a direct connect cable to link two PCs via LPT ports (needed to get some large files from one to another in the pre-USB era). No idea if such cables can be obtained nowadays though (do modern PCs even have LPT ports?).
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Minnie
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 1:57 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

wardrich: Actually it is Heretic or Hexen that I want to get going. It seems to me in reading that they are by the same company as Doom and read that they run on the same 'platform' so was hoping that the connecting file programs would be the same. (no I don't know what I am talking about) Seemed that Doom was more popular so hoped a fan might help out.

The laptop and PC are both old. I am looking for another old laptop with a modem port. Like 4gb, 64 max memory. Win 95
I did not get along well with Dosbox and figured there was no chance of connecting two modern faster laptops. I will check your links soon.


MrFlibbl: The laptop and old PC have printer ports. I am just missing a phone jack on the PC.

Thinking that I will try the cable when it arrives. Looking now for a LPT cable.

The laptop I have has nice speakers built in so hmmmm just remembered I don't need speakers. Those kids.. had to have headphones unless they played a harder game without them. Seems they could tell where the other was by the sound coming from their laptop. Hard to hide that way!
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pseudocoder
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:38 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Minnie wrote:
condensed ...

No babbling at all - this is really bringing back a lot of fond albeit hazy memories. Shit-Eating Grin I remember doing this same sort of thing, but not really how at the moment; when we did this stuff back in the mid 90s, we had a dedicated server running Quake or maybe Quake 3, I cannot remember now. That's where the LAN and hub came from.

As far as hardware goes, having an ethernet port / card is only half the battle... you will also need to locate a real mode dos driver, which gets installed in the config.sys file. A side issue is some of the ethernet adapters were "plug and play" and required a plug and play manager to be installed in config.sys file before the ethernet driver. I don't know if laptops required this or not, but if you have a laptop with an ethernet port, check its bios to see if you can manually assign resources such dma, irq and such.

From the description of your machines, it does look like your best bet will be the serial connection. If both machines are in the same physical location, then you shouldn't need phone ports or anything like that. All you'd need is the null cable connected between the two machines via their respective com1 or com2 port. You might experience lag since serial ports are slow. I haven't tried this method, but I'm guessing one machine would host while the other joins by way of the software you downloaded.

I found this site that seems rather informative on setting up various devices for use in 6.22.

Best of luck to you, and I'll try to help if I can.

tienkhoanguyen wrote:
condesned ...

I'm surprised such a place is still somewhat active; I used to be okay with the hardware end of Dos, but wasn't much of a software person other than putzing around test servers and such. It's sort of sad to think of how much of this I've forgotten. Thanks for the headups on folks to hide from. Tbbbbbth!

MrFlibble wrote:
condensed ...

Thank you for the welcome. If I can help anyone out, then I'm happy to do so...
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wardrich
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 2:45 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like ZDoom supports Heretic and Hexen, as does Skulltag (see here)

If the PC's are really old, I'm not sure how well these programs will work, but it wouldn't hurt to try. It would probably make the entire setup much easier.

If I recall, you just install the software, then put the .wad files from Doom/Heretic/Hexen into a directory in the Zdoom/SkullTag folder.
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tienkhoanguyen
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:24 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

pseudocoder wrote:
Minnie wrote:
condensed ...

No babbling at all - this is really bringing back a lot of fond albeit hazy memories. Shit-Eating Grin I remember doing this same sort of thing, but not really how at the moment; when we did this stuff back in the mid 90s, we had a dedicated server running Quake or maybe Quake 3, I cannot remember now. That's where the LAN and hub came from.

As far as hardware goes, having an ethernet port / card is only half the battle... you will also need to locate a real mode dos driver, which gets installed in the config.sys file. A side issue is some of the ethernet adapters were "plug and play" and required a plug and play manager to be installed in config.sys file before the ethernet driver. I don't know if laptops required this or not, but if you have a laptop with an ethernet port, check its bios to see if you can manually assign resources such dma, irq and such.

From the description of your machines, it does look like your best bet will be the serial connection. If both machines are in the same physical location, then you shouldn't need phone ports or anything like that. All you'd need is the null cable connected between the two machines via their respective com1 or com2 port. You might experience lag since serial ports are slow. I haven't tried this method, but I'm guessing one machine would host while the other joins by way of the software you downloaded.

I found this site that seems rather informative on setting up various devices for use in 6.22.

Best of luck to you, and I'll try to help if I can.

tienkhoanguyen wrote:
condesned ...

I'm surprised such a place is still somewhat active; I used to be okay with the hardware end of Dos, but wasn't much of a software person other than putzing around test servers and such. It's sort of sad to think of how much of this I've forgotten. Thanks for the headups on folks to hide from. Tbbbbbth!

MrFlibble wrote:
condensed ...

Thank you for the welcome. If I can help anyone out, then I'm happy to do so...


Do not worry about me. You are a big help and you are good to go. The mods are there for a reason. They want to help everyone out. Of course they do give unlimited leeway for good jokes Laughing
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Minnie
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:50 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

pseudocoder wrote:
You will also need to locate a real mode dos driver, which gets installed in the config.sys file. A side issue is some of the ethernet adapters were "plug and play" and required a plug and play manager to be installed in config.sys file before the ethernet driver. I don't know if laptops required this or not, but if you have a laptop with an ethernet port, check its bios to see if you can manually assign resources such dma, irq and such


Hey, I actually understood all that. Also hope to find the necessary files. Memories of the config.sys file are coming back.
And I found that site most encouraging too. I think both pc and laptop are running 6.22. At least I have some 20 yr old upgrade disks here as evidence. Just looked at laptop. It is 6.22 Good omen hopefully.

wardrich wrote:
If I recall, you just install the software, then put the .wad files from Doom/Heretic/Hexen into a directory in the Zdoom/SkullTag folder."
Sounds like reinstalling the game into the Zdoom folder as the wad files did some unzipping on their own during the original install.


Waiting for a cable now. Will let you all know how much fun I have trying this. So many thanks for all the info!!
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tienkhoanguyen
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 5:20 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Minnie wrote:
pseudocoder said: "you will also need to locate a real mode dos driver, which gets installed in the config.sys file. A side issue is some of the ethernet adapters were "plug and play" and required a plug and play manager to be installed in config.sys file before the ethernet driver. I don't know if laptops required this or not, but if you have a laptop with an ethernet port, check its bios to see if you can manually assign resources such dma, irq and such".

Hey, I actually understood all that. Also hope to find the necessary files. Memories of the config.sys file are coming back.
And I found that site most encouraging too. I think both pc and laptop are running 6.22. At least I have some 20 yr old upgrade disks here as evidence. Just looked at laptop. It is 6.22 Good omen hopefully.

wardrich said: " If I recall, you just install the software, then put the .wad files from Doom/Heretic/Hexen into a directory in the Zdoom/SkullTag folder."
Sounds like reinstalling the game into the Zdoom folder as the wad files did some unzipping on their own during the original install.

Waiting for a cable now. Will let you all know how much fun I have trying this. So many thanks for all the info!!


Ma'am,

I hope you have a wonderful happy time. Please keep in touch if you can. We are all here to help.
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Minnie
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:12 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

First, the seller sent the wrong serial cable configuration. Just got another today. Nothing was successful after that.

It seems to me that the DWANGO files ( which were on the floppies) are for playing on the internet as the setup will not complete without the input of a telephone number, baud rate, etc. And the name of the modem no less.

But it seems the DM (no DWANGO files are on the CD) are also for serial cables.The DM execution files gave a setup screen with the option of connecting the two computers with a serial cable, which I did.Two player option (mandatory with serial) Com port one (also mandatory)

The first old (386 Win 3.1) PC has no modem. And no CD player. And the floppies did not have the DM files, only Dwango.
On the second newer (pentium Win 98) PC I had installed Heretic from a CD, and found that DM files installed right into the Heretic folder automatically.

So I installed the DM files on the old PC too. Then configured the DM setups. But no matter the configuration the newer PC would never hold a connection.
And no matter which PC was connected in what order, the newer one would always drop the connection. This was after seeing both start to load the Heretic program. The old PC seemed to like the idea better that the new PC.
In trying to reconnect the newer one, it would just say it was looking to connect to a modem. Might I conclude that a modem always has to be in mix?

The old PC would actually say it was loading then just sit there when the newer ( which was loading too) disconnected. And always was looking to connect to a modem on relaunching. The games do play without a problem on both PCs otherwise.

Sorry for repeating myself so much. It seemed so close when seeing them both loading.....
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tienkhoanguyen
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:31 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Minnie wrote:
First, the seller sent the wrong serial cable configuration. Just got another today. Nothing was successful after that.

It seems to me that the DWANGO files ( which were on the floppies) are for playing on the internet as the setup will not complete without the input of a telephone number, baud rate, etc. And the name of the modem no less.

But it seems the DM (no DWANGO files are on the CD) are also for serial cables.The DM execution files gave a setup screen with the option of connecting the two computers with a serial cable, which I did.Two player option (mandatory with serial) Com port one (also mandatory)

The first old (386 Win 3.1) PC has no modem. And no CD player. And the floppies did not have the DM files, only Dwango.
On the second newer (pentium Win 98) PC I had installed Heretic from a CD, and found that DM files installed right into the Heretic folder automatically.

So I installed the DM files on the old PC too. Then configured the DM setups. But no matter the configuration the newer PC would never hold a connection.
And no matter which PC was connected in what order, the newer one would always drop the connection. This was after seeing both start to load the Heretic program. The old PC seemed to like the idea better that the new PC.
In trying to reconnect the newer one, it would just say it was looking to connect to a modem. Might I conclude that a modem always has to be in mix?

The old PC would actually say it was loading then just sit there when the newer ( which was loading too) disconnected. And always was looking to connect to a modem on relaunching. The games do play without a problem on both PCs otherwise.

Sorry for repeating myself so much. It seemed so close when seeing them both loading.....


Dear Ma'am,

Please don't worry about repeating yourself. I know my grandmother is 87 and I love it when she is being herself. I don't know how much longer she has. So I know you are 87 almost too so please you want to have as much fun before the good LORD calls you! Thank you for being a part of my life. I appreciate you even though I can't do a darn thing knowing nothing about this setup!
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