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Ah me...... poor Indian.
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Santhosh CHRiS
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:02 pm     Post subject: Ah me...... poor Indian. Reply with quote

More and more Indians are being attacked in Australia. It's sad. I've always wanted to visit this great country and it was once one my options for higher studies... but I'm having second thoughts. Sad

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/06/indian-student-australia-melbourne

Topic split from http://www.dosgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13641
~dosraider.
BTW Santhosh, if you don't like the topic title you can edit it, you're listed as the topic starter.
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Dogbreath
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:37 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

CM doesn't look at all Indian, so she shouldn't have a problem.
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Check-Mate
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:52 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Haha, Appearance wise I'm basically the exact opposite of Indian.
Pale (Nearly translucent), blonde hair, blue eyes....
I should be good to go.
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Wally
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:55 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Santhosh CHRiS wrote:
More and more Indians are being attacked in Australia. It's sad. I've always wanted to visit this great country and it was once one my options for higher studies... but I'm having second thoughts. Sad

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/06/indian-student-australia-melbourne


We just really are sick of Telemarketers / Call Centres / Door to door Salespeople which are mostly indian.

Why companies even bother to outsource calls is beyond me.
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Santhosh CHRiS
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:37 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Wally wrote:
Santhosh CHRiS wrote:
More and more Indians are being attacked in Australia. It's sad. I've always wanted to visit this great country and it was once one my options for higher studies... but I'm having second thoughts. Sad

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/06/indian-student-australia-melbourne


We just really are sick of Telemarketers / Call Centres / Door to door Salespeople which are mostly indian.

Why companies even bother to outsource calls is beyond me.


I don't mean to sound rude but most of the victims are infact Indian students who pay Australian universities good deal of money to study there and thereby helping the Australian government and boosting your economy. I've heard of even Indian tourists having to deal a lot with this kind of racism.

And even if you are eh... annoyed by Indian telemarketers, call centers, door to door salesmen whatever... it gives you absolutely NO right to go around killing them or physically attack them. Sign a petition with the government to deport them if you must and if they try to stick around through illegal means put them in prison and let the police handle them.

We respect Australians here. Why can't you at least try to tolerate Indians in the land down under instead of justifying your acts of anger with such statements?

And the reason why your companies outsource or hire Indians is simply because Indians work harder for lesser pay and all companies promise them a Visa if they continue. So maybe it's the greed of Indians and Australian companies that's causing all this but burning random Indian victims alive in cars is NOT the way to go around solving this issue.
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Dogbreath
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 2:41 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Check-Mate wrote:
Haha, Appearance wise I'm basically the exact opposite of Indian.
Pale (Nearly translucent), blonde hair, blue eyes....
I should be good to go.


I used to entertain myself for hours by looking at my veins... my skin is practically see through.

Quote:

And even if you are eh... annoyed by Indian telemarketers, call centers, door to door salesmen whatever... it gives you absolutely NO right to go around killing them or physically attack them.


How many Indians do you think Wally has killed so far?
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Santhosh CHRiS
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:38 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogbreath wrote:


How many Indians do you think Wally has killed so far?


Now don't get me wrong I have no doubt Wally is a good guy and I like like him a lot, but if infact I wanted to meet him in Australia along with some other friends I have living there like Bev (creator of the Aussie web comic Chooken) I would have to take great risks just because of some racist punks. The governemt should take better steps in improving living conditions for any minority race group not just Indian and if they can't just deport them back to their respective countries... simple as that.

I always look at a person not by their race, color or creed, but as fellow human beings. If innoscent American lives were endangered in another country i would feel just as bad as someone from my own country was. I consider myself a world citizen Happy
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Larry Laffer
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 4:49 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Santhosh CHRiS wrote:
Now don't get me wrong I have no doubt Wally is a good guy and I like like him a lot


...

Bwahahahahahaha! Laughing



But seriously, only real reason to go to Australia nowadays is get insulted by Yahtzee for pooping on his lawn and maybe poking GAMER.
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Check-Mate
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:17 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

By the by, I believe racism exists everywhere....
Regardless of what race they are, or what country.

I dunno. I don't have all the facts, for sure, but.... it just seems like maybe this is sort of being blown out of proportion?

We wanted to go to NZ but apparently the visa is a lot harder to get, or something? I haven't looked into it, she has.

We're sort of hoping to land in Sydney and then travel up the east coast....
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Dogbreath
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:56 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Check-Mate wrote:

I dunno. I don't have all the facts, for sure, but.... it just seems like maybe this is sort of being blown out of proportion?


That's what Wally and I have been trying to point out.

Well, the article Santhosh posted mentioned 3 Indians who had been attacked, and every year a couple dozen Indians are attacked/mugged. Santhosh, in his limited understanding of logic, assumes this to be a national policy of discrimination against Indians. He fails to realise Australia is a country of over 22,000,000 people. Last year in Australia, 302 people were murdered, 15,630 were raped, 23,314 were mugged, and 139,094 had their cars stolen. Most likely, the handful of Indian students attacked were purely random targets.

As far as safety goes, Australia is one of the safest countries in the world. (it's right behind Canada) Statistically, it's about 20 times safer to be an Indian in Australia than it is to be an Indian in India.

Actually, you'll be in a lot more danger than an Indian would. Because you're female and not very muscular, and because you're obviously a tourist. (unless you can fake an accent, people will assume you're American) That means you're probably disoriented, have a high chance of carrying a lot of cash, and don't know anybody who could potentially avenge you/protect you. But the chances of you getting murdered are still less than 1 in 100,000.

Gamer: How did you lose your responses? I haven't deleted any... I'll see what's going on. Unless you were posting gay porn or being really insulting there's no reason it should've been deleted.

Also, the aforementioned Yahtzee is opening a gaming-based pub named "Mana Bar" in Brisbane in February... it's only a few minutes away from where you live, so you should go there with a camera sometime and tell us about it.
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:32 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Santhosh CHRiS wrote:
I consider myself a world citizen

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Justin-Tsimfuckis/124841075864

Dogbreath wrote:

Gamer: How did you lose your responses? I haven't deleted any... I'll see what's going on. Unless you were posting gay porn or being really insulting there's no reason it should've been deleted.

I don't think she meant 'deleted'. More likely a time out or interrupted innet conn, happens to me also that if I take too long before hitting the 'submit' button I must log in again on DGF.


...... Cheap crappy host? Suspicious
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Santhosh CHRiS
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:02 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogbreath wrote:

Statistically, it's about 20 times safer to be an Indian in Australia than it is to be an Indian in India.



Wow... so according to your eh... statistics... since 3 Indians were murdered in 10 days in Australia.. times 20 that comes out to... 60 killed here. Will have to check the papers on that one but I don't quite think that quite happened. Happy

Anywayz I'm not gonna get political cuz it caused a lot of problems before... but I will give you one incident that shows how eh... SMALL a deal the U.S. government made of when Michael Fay was canned in Singapore for vandalism just because he was an American.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay


Last edited by Santhosh CHRiS on Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:19 am; edited 3 times in total
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Check-Mate
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:04 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogbreath wrote:


Actually, you'll be in a lot more danger than an Indian would. Because you're female and not very muscular, and because you're obviously a tourist. (unless you can fake an accent, people will assume you're American) That means you're probably disoriented, have a high chance of carrying a lot of cash, and don't know anybody who could potentially avenge you/protect you. But the chances of you getting murdered are still less than 1 in 100,000.



Yep. That's what I was thinking. Hah.
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Dogbreath
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:30 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Santhosh CHRiS wrote:

Wow... so according to your eh... statistics...


Stats come from Nation Master, and are quite reliable.

Quote:
since 3 Indians were murdered in 10 days in Australia.. times 20 that comes out to... 60 killed here. Will have to check the papers on that one but I don't quite think that quite happened. Happy


Actually, 20x is a very conservative estimate. Last year there were 37,170 murders in India. Going by that, and assuming the trend is fairly stable, 1018.3 Indians were murdered in the past 10 days in India. Of course, there are far more Indians in India than in Australia, but I feel 20x is still a good estimate. Feel free to check the obituaries for an exact number.


Last edited by Dogbreath on Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:16 am; edited 2 times in total
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Santhosh CHRiS
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:12 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-Pacific/2010/0107/Another-Indian-student-killed-in-Australia-Racism-or-hard-times-to-blame

I think the above article is pretty neutral.

And look I'm not trying to praise or support Indians in any way and I made it very clear that to me every life matters no matter their race but put your government in the same position as ours. If instead of Indian students, American students were being targeted and killed in Australia how would YOU people react? Would you say... hey you know what it happens everyday. Whatever. You couldn't even stand 18 year old Michael Fay getting canned in Singapore for vandalism and made such a HUGE fuss and sob story over it when every other nationality was getting the exact same punishment regardless of what their country laws and punishments were like. When in Rome you DO what the Romans and if you break their laws be prepared to be treated the same way all Romans are.

That's something you never seem to do... put yourself in OTHER peoples shoes. September 11th very sad... over 3,000 Americans killed. I mourned for that. But since then 9 years on have you ever considered how many innocent Iraqi people who had absolutely nothing to do with it, died needlessly because of that?

Few people in your country like Michael Moore think about that stuff and most of you hate him or ignore his facts altogether.

A Brief History of the United States of America

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEVPSfJIQ84

I still think America is the greatest country in the world. They had a very shady past but things have been good and fair thanks to strong foundations set by leaders like t Lincoln and Roosevelt and I hope each day India moves closer and closer to her greatness but every country has its flaws and merits


Last edited by Santhosh CHRiS on Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:31 am; edited 6 times in total
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Dogbreath
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:17 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

I had edited my post to address more of your other post, but after I saw you posted during the edit I decided to split it into two for easier reading. Here's the rest:

Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay


You seem incapable of discerning the difference between the acts of deranged outlaws who happen to be private citizens of a country, and a country's government. Simply put, if the Australian government was rounding up and mutilating and murdering Indian students, Australia would quickly be asked to change it's ways. If it didn't, it's face severe economic sanctions, and possible military retaliation from India and NATO.

The reason for that is not so much a universal respect for human rights, but more of a sovereignty issue. The U.S. grants it's citizens certain unalienable rights (including the right to not be subjected to cruel and unusual punishments, which beating definitely qualifies as), and furthermore has made a policy of enforcing those guarantees globally. This is nothing new, it dates back at least as far as the Monroe Doctrine and the war of 1812. (which was more or less fought over the rights of U.S. sailors/criminals captured by the Empire) To fail to enforce those rights breeches the covenant between the government and it's people. In short, it weakens the people's trust and allegiance to the government, weakens the integrity and authority of the government internationally, and can wind up causing a slippery slope scenario that ends in diplomatic disaster.

Mr. Worm is a political scientist so he can explain this much better than I can if you're having difficulty following me. President Clinton wasn't just throwing a fit over a single U.S. citizen getting caned, he was defending the sovereignty of the U.S. and the integrity of it's constitution. You might view this as a bit of a bully move, but a diplomatic policy emphatic on protecting national rights is imperative to keeping world peace. Fools and young people often think of courtesy as being superfluous, but it's constant mutual respect and politeness that keeps all the power struggles purely diplomatic. This is what happens when concessions are made. (incidentally, this is the source of all the tension with Iran repeatedly abducting U.S. and British nationals)

You mention getting in trouble for your views. It's not your views that are the problem. For example, dosraider and I once had a heated multi-page argument about gun control, and any of the religion threads here are full of very different viewpoints. I think the issue is that you make sweeping statements and assumptions with no consideration for logic or rationality, and that you do so in a very insulting and condescending way. You could have started a thread and made a very strong argument about the prevalence of racism, or at least a callous disregard to hate crimes, in the English speaking world. You could have found statistics and neutral articles and interviews to back you up. You could have carefully formed your arguments in any number of accepted logical orders. (say thesis statement, analysis, synthesis, thesis, conclusion, or whatever floats your boat) You could have written dispassionately and respectfully, with consideration for the feelings of others.

You would still be opposed by most people here, but you would also be respected. An equal, a worthy opponent.

Instead to decided to sabotage another members thread to make a petty and hateful remark. And the members here are still mostly replying courteously and respectfully, because they obey the rules of the forum, the rules of human conduct. They know the value of moral and intellectual honesty, of society, of behaving like an adult. On any other forum, you would've been eaten alive by this point. (and that's sad, I prefer tolerance to mockery)

The reason you're welcome here and encouraged to post (aside from the fact I like you and your work! Happy) is because I think ignorance is largely to blame for your behavior. A Pol Sci 101 and a class or two in expository writing would do you wonders, methinks.

Take it easy.
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Santhosh CHRiS
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:37 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogbreath wrote:


The reason you're welcome here and encouraged to post (aside from the fact I like you and your work! Happy)

Take it easy.


Aw.. thanks. I'm sorry I just can't stand to hear about any kind of people getting killed and get very emotional. The same happened when 2 kids from my college got really drunk and were killed in a motor accident. I'm generally an extremely calm funny guy but at that time I was shouting and picking fights with my friends for no reason saying random stuff.

Maybe that's why I'm posting like this in this forum I dunno Ashamed
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:51 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Santhosh CHRiS wrote:

Aw.. thanks. I'm sorry I just can't stand to hear about any kind of people getting killed and get very emotional.


The fact you never seem to comment on the atrocities happening in the Sudan, or the current disaster in Haiti, or the genocide in Myanmar, or the oppression and execution of homosexuals in Islamic countries, or hell, the ridiculously high rate of murder and violent crime in your own country suggests otherwise. Well, that and your repeated hateful comments towards Australia. There's more than just an anger at injustice going on here.

Quote:
The same happened when 2 kids from my college got really drunk and were killed in a motor accident. I was shouting and picking fights with my friends for no reason saying random stuff.

Maybe that's why I'm posting like this in this forum I dunno Ashamed


No offense, but I believe you misread my last post. It was more "we tolerate your posts, but wish you would grow up", not "we condone your posts, please keep acting spitefully." Your behavior is very immature and destructive. You've just hijacked a perfectly innocent thread and offended several members. There are reasons we usually split and lock your posts. Gamer and Check Mate are probably both feeling rather disgusted at this point, your actions have made this forum much more unsafe and unfriendly to post in. I'll split this topic tomorrow, hopefully conversation will continue normally after this aberration.
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Santhosh CHRiS
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 1:52 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Dogbreath wrote:


The fact you never seem to comment on the atrocities happening in the Sudan, or the current disaster in Haiti, or the genocide in Myanmar, or the oppression and execution of homosexuals in Islamic countries, or hell, the ridiculously high rate of murder and violent crime in your own country suggests otherwise.


Oh so you want me to mention bad stuff going on in more eh.. middle Eastern and Asian countries and overlook minor stuff that's happening in eh... more developed western countries like Australia and U.S and most of Europe. Got it... but just so you know. A life is a life no matter how many or how few. I know very well the bad things happening in my country are probably on a bigger scale cuz of the immense population and I know there are social evils here but at least I won't be denying it or totally ignoring it altogether. Happy

Btw have you ever BEEN to India or gone to any other country other than Canada? And even if you have, have you gone there as an Indian? Guess what. I'm an Indian and I've been here almost all my life AND I've lived in U.S. Saudia Arabia, Singapore, Malaysia.

I've visited UK, France, Holland, Canada. My dad has lived and worked for several years in Singapore, Australia, UK, Holland etc. Half my family lives in U.S. My grandfather lived there through the 60's before returning here.

You're pulling stats at me while I'm quoting from REAL life experiences. There's a HUGE difference.

For the record U.S. France, Holland, UK, Canada, Saudia Arabia, Singapore, except for VERY rare incidents its ZERO racism as far as me and my family are concerned. I'm talking about the late nineties and early 2000. Don't know how things are now. (I have had some bad experiences online in other chat rooms and forums mostly with Aussies, and sometimes Americans but I won't take that into consideration right now and I admit DGF is clean... which is why I still post here under my Indian name Shit-Eating Grin)

Australia on the other hand... phew... My dad had THE worst time of his life living there. If he went on a bus and sat on an empty seat next to a white person, he would leave the seat in disgust. On the street if even by accident his hand touches an Australian's hand or any body part the person would immediately pull away angry and sometimes with racist slurs added. He feared gangsters in every corner telling him to leave the country or get beaten up. Every time he went to work at least 3 or 4 people glared at him in anger. In his office however, they were very professional but things outside his office got so bad he was forced to resign his job and moved back to India for awhile worked in Mumbai and then tried for Arab countries instead. Ofcurse this was back in the late 70's and 80's and I'm sure things HAVE improved but there's still a very long way to go and remaining totally indifferent towards it is NOT going to help the situation any better.

Anywayz I will shut up now and yes I do have e very big mouth and sometimes I don't know when to stop and think what I've said. My girl just said the same thing a while ago Laughing

I'm just saying stuff that happened in the past. In no way do I hate Australia or hold prejudice against Aussies and still think it's a very beautiful country and all but sad to say... I fear going there simply because I am Indian and as Check Mate (as so obviously put by Dogbreath) in no way resembles an Indian can have a great time I'm sure!
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:13 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah well, let's face it, they even don't like Indians in India.

/joky/
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