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In memory of Michael Jackson
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Should Santhosh CHRiS be banned?
Yes
80%
 80%  [ 4 ]
Yes.
20%
 20%  [ 1 ]
Total Votes : 5

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Santhosh CHRiS
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 5:31 pm     Post subject: In memory of Michael Jackson Reply with quote

Just heard on the news that Michael Jackson might be dead... I really don't know what to say or think right now... It's almost 4 A.M. here and I'm watching it all LIVE on BBC News (sniff) Sad

Reports say he might be still alive but in a coma after suffering from a cardiac arrest Hope he gets through this somehow. Until then perhaps we can post and share some of our most fondest memories of his music that took the world by storm.

My personal favorite songs were 'Ben' 'Billie Jean', 'Smooth Criminal', and 'Heal the World'. The moonwalk was my favorite dance step as a kid and even now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7MmEMrCRfc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSqo17o2a1w
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 12:36 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, seems it's a goner.
He was looking in the mirror when his nose fell off -> Cardiac arrest.
Had some good songs.
KTXBAAAAIIIIIiiiii.

BTW, worldometer says: Deaths today 52,520 .... and still counting.
You gonna post 52,000+ posts for each one of them?
There are certainly people in those 52,000+ that did a lot more for humanity then MJ .....
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:26 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably 51,999+.

Honestly, good riddance. It's sad for anyone to die, but I really couldn't stand the guy.
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lakerzz8
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:16 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

He was one of the greatest musicians of all time and that is how I will remember him. You can hate on him all you want and remember all the children who tried to get money off of him but Michael had a terrible childhood and a messed up life. RIP
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Santhosh CHRiS
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:51 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

lakerzz8 wrote:
He was one of the greatest musicians of all time and that is how I will remember him. You can hate on him all you want and remember all the children who tried to get money off of him but Michael had a terrible childhood and a messed up life. RIP


Thanks for sharing lakerzz8.

(sigh) Even at work I couldn't concentrate properly. I kept listening to all his songs particularly 'Ben' and 'Billie Jean' Most of the people there were a bit glum too and we talked about our favorite songs, put photos of him on our wallpapers, played his music etc.

Today morning as I got ready for work, they showed some old clips of him performing and reaching out to his fans. He truly loved children, and I really can't care less about all those allegations because none of them were ever proved and some of the greedy parents could just well be trying to suck money from him through false lawsuits for all we know. Tears welled up in my eyes as I watched some footage of him genuinely smiling and touching the face of a small Asian girl looking at him in awe and wonder.

Still I agree he has done a lot of stupid things but put yourself in his shoes. He's been performing in adult clubs, television studios, stage shows, etc. since he was 5. He was beaten up badly by his father, lost his childhood to the harsh life of surviving in the music industry. He couldn't keep up with it all and thus drowned himself into the world of plastic surgery, false celebrity friendship, eccentricities, etc. but he never ever once compromised his love for making music and entertaining millions. The quality of his music ALWAYS exceeded expectations.

Michael Jackson has bridged together 2 to 3 generations of music lovers, and races from all over the world. He has opened his hearts to poor children everywhere, including India where he donated so much money and time to help children in slums. He went into debt because of his lavish lifestyle yes, but a LOT of it was also due to charity he gave so generously.

Anywayz that's all I have to say for now and with heavy heart I post all this. MJ will be remembered forever as he moonwalks his way towards Heaven's Gates to be with God.

And to all his haters, I understand you guys as well. My own brother hates this guy and when me and my mom messaged him what he felt, he flatly ignored it and said he was busy... but just for a second try to see the good things he's done and not the bad ones and you will know he will be greatly missed as truly great music and performers continuously declines replaced by crap by the likes of 50 Cent, and Britney Spears or whatever techno garbage, remixes the music makers force down our throats ugh....

What makes me REALLY sad is not only that he's gone... but he went kind of incomplete. He planned a big comeback and some 50 shows... Sad
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Larry Laffer
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:31 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

He had some good songs, some questionable life decisions and a rather disturbing love towards children, I'll give him that.


But I'm not going to put my life to a halt to mourn him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:53 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

Santhosh CHRiS wrote:

And to all his haters, I understand you guys as well.

Hate? Naaaaa, I don't 'hate' him, why should I? In fact I'm pretty indifferent towards the whole MJ character.
Santhosh CHRiS wrote:

Still I agree he has done a lot of stupid things but put yourself in his shoes. He's been performing in adult clubs, television studios, stage shows, etc. since he was 5. He was beaten up badly by his father, lost his childhood to the harsh life of surviving in the music industry. He couldn't keep up with it all and thus drowned himself into the world of plastic surgery, false celebrity friendship, eccentricities, etc. but he never ever once compromised his love for making music and entertaining millions. The quality of his music ALWAYS exceeded expectations.

That's no reason, even ain't an excuse for what you do when you become an adult.
Once you reach a certain age your life becomes what you make of it, when you live your life as an idiot it is your choice, and yours alone, whatever happened to you when you were young, that's one of the major advantages of being human, otherwise you're an animal, your life dictated by the pavlov reflex.
Even if it's hard to change your behaviour, humans can achieve that.

And I certainly don't admire any so called stars for their fake achievements in life, my admiration goes to all those anonymous people who work day and night to help others, most 'stars' live only for themselves in a shallow world.

Grow up Santhosh, open your eyes.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 1:07 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Amen, dosraider.

I guess if you want to talk about the amount he gave to India, there are a lot of better examples. A good friend of mine recently spent 2 months in India working for free at a hospital for sick widows and old women who had nowhere else to go. Much of it was spent cleaning them, since they were too sick to make it to a washroom. I've actually got several Indian friends who run ministries there, and a lot of them have gone hungry in order to let someone else be full. Likewise, all the people in the U.S. (to name one country) who are struggling economically, but still give more than they can afford to charity and missionaries.

For Michael, it's not a personal sacrifice - he's one of the wealthiest musicians in the world, and his recent financial "crisis"involved him having to sell Neverland Ranch and live in a place that cost "only" $100,000/month to rent. It's just tossing a few dollars and getting a good photo-op.

I don't mind his music much (though it's a little before my time), but I have a big problem with his inappropriate behavior with children. Even if he didn't molest them, what kind of 50 year old man has sleepovers with little boys? Uggh, he's just a creep.
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Santhosh CHRiS
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:17 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Michael Jackson good or bad... he WILL be remembered for the entertainment, magic with powerful music, dance steps, and sometimes laughs he's provided over the years with his crazy antics!

Now please enjoy this video Shit-Eating Grin

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/mq

Michael Forever!!!

MOAR MJ stuff in today's Albinoblacksheep update

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/


Last edited by Santhosh CHRiS on Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Larry Laffer
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 2:43 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Gotta admit that flash is pretty entertaining. Sarcastic


Also: what dosraider said.
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 5:14 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

Funny flash, indeed.
Wacko Mario .... Laughing
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lakerzz8
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:56 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

dosraider wrote:
Santhosh CHRiS wrote:

And to all his haters, I understand you guys as well.

Hate? Naaaaa, I don't 'hate' him, why should I? In fact I'm pretty indifferent towards the whole MJ character.
Santhosh CHRiS wrote:

Still I agree he has done a lot of stupid things but put yourself in his shoes. He's been performing in adult clubs, television studios, stage shows, etc. since he was 5. He was beaten up badly by his father, lost his childhood to the harsh life of surviving in the music industry. He couldn't keep up with it all and thus drowned himself into the world of plastic surgery, false celebrity friendship, eccentricities, etc. but he never ever once compromised his love for making music and entertaining millions. The quality of his music ALWAYS exceeded expectations.

That's no reason, even ain't an excuse for what you do when you become an adult.
Once you reach a certain age your life becomes what you make of it, when you live your life as an idiot it is your choice, and yours alone, whatever happened to you when you were young, that's one of the major advantages of being human, otherwise you're an animal, your life dictated by the pavlov reflex.
Even if it's hard to change your behaviour, humans can achieve that.

And I certainly don't admire any so called stars for their fake achievements in life, my admiration goes to all those anonymous people who work day and night to help others, most 'stars' live only for themselves in a shallow world.

Grow up Santhosh, open your eyes.


Wrong.

You need to study psychology a little to realize how you are raised and abuses taken as a child actually has a lot of effect on how you develop as an adult. Many (not all) child molestors, etc were abused and molested as children themselves. Now, that doesn't make what they do right or take full responsibility away from them but to say their childhood has no effect on what happens to them later in life is a completely moronic statement from someone that has their eyes closed. So please open your eyes before you tell others to do the same.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 11:05 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

lakerzz8 wrote:
You need to study psychology a little to realize how you are raised and abuses taken as a child actually has a lot of effect on how you develop as an adult. Many (not all) child molestors, etc were abused and molested as children themselves.

And many who were abused/molested do not abuse/molest others.
And many who where not abused/molested will abuse/molest others.

A cheap excuse is a cheap excuse.
You are what you want to be.
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Cmaza
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:02 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

His death, though readily predictable, has come as quite the shock. I'm quite lost for words, to be honest. MJ was quite strange, but regardless of what he was like as a person and regardless of whatever he may or may not have done, he was a true pioneer and a true genius of modern music. I wasn't a huge fan of his nor of his work, but nonetheless, I will miss the guy. Though I have my doubts as to how much of him was actually alive given his psychological state amongst other things, may his memory live on for many generations to come. Long live the king of pop.
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lakerzz8
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:08 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

dosraider wrote:
lakerzz8 wrote:
You need to study psychology a little to realize how you are raised and abuses taken as a child actually has a lot of effect on how you develop as an adult. Many (not all) child molestors, etc were abused and molested as children themselves.

And many who were abused/molested do not abuse/molest others.
And many who where not abused/molested will abuse/molest others.

A cheap excuse is a cheap excuse.
You are what you want to be.


Every situation is different and that is why it is impossible to say with complete accuracy what the abuse will lead the person to do. However, ignoring the fact that they were abused and saying it is inconsequential is wrong. Our environment shapes us in so many ways so to say that you are what you want to be is a complete lie. Do you think those born into poverty an die of malnutrition are what they want to be? Do you think a little girl that is raped by her father and is psychologically scarred for life will lead as full and complete of a life as a little girl that received nothing but love and support from her parents? Come on man, why do you think psychologists get paid so much money to help people. And those that slip through and aren't helped in time may be the next child molester. Being abused as a child is not a cheap excuse.
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dosraider
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 5:11 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

lakerzz8 wrote:

Every situation is different and that is why it is impossible to say with complete accuracy what the abuse will lead the person to do. However, ignoring the fact that they were abused and saying it is inconsequential is wrong.

I didn't say it's inconsequential, I said it's a cheap excuse, it's not because you were abused that you absolutely must abuse others, we are not animals, we have a free will.
lakerzz8 wrote:

Do you think those born into poverty an die of malnutrition are what they want to be?

What is the point of that statement in the abuse discussion? Abuse is widely spread, nothing to see with poverty.
lakerzz8 wrote:

Do you think a little girl that is raped by her father and is psychologically scarred for life will lead as full and complete of a life as a little girl that received nothing but love and support from her parents?

Again what's the point of this in the current discussion?
We are discussing abusing children, not rape, but even then, if you want to go that way, will raped girls rape other girls through their life?
If we go with your statements, they should go on a raping spree.
lakerzz8 wrote:
Come on man, why do you think psychologists get paid so much money to help people.

We don't have that culture of a shrink for every person here in W-Europ.
But it seems we slowly go that way, $$$$$$$$$$$ is the reason.
lakerzz8 wrote:
those that slip through and aren't helped in time may be the next child molester. Being abused as a child is not a cheap excuse.

Explain now why those that were never abused become abusers.
What's their excuse?

You may post as many lulz a you want, those are the facts:
-> abusers know it's wrong.
-> many who were abused will indeed abuse in their later life.
-> many who were abused will not do the same, they will restrain themselves from harming others in the same way.
-> many who abuse were never abused. They are simple rotten beings that live for themselves and don't want to restrain themselves.
-> many who abuse simply enjoy the feeling of power that comes with it.

-> we are humans, beings with a free will, to do good or wrong.
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Santhosh CHRiS
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 3:30 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

TIME Magazine released a special commemorative issue of Michael Jackson.

http://extratv.warnerbros.com/2009/06/time_honors_michael_jackson.php

I just recently bought a copy and it was awesome!! It shows his humble beginnings with the Jackson 5, his rise to fame, his talent in music that won the hearts of billions, his dark side, the conspiracies but overall it celebrates his life with photos and EVERYTHING!

Don't miss it! Pick up YOUR copy today! Congratulatory
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:32 pm     Post subject: Reply with quote

So you got that job at Time, eh Santhosh?

(j/k, j/k Tbbbbbth!)
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lakerzz8
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:08 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

dosraider wrote:
lakerzz8 wrote:

Every situation is different and that is why it is impossible to say with complete accuracy what the abuse will lead the person to do. However, ignoring the fact that they were abused and saying it is inconsequential is wrong.

I didn't say it's inconsequential, I said it's a cheap excuse, it's not because you were abused that you absolutely must abuse others, we are not animals, we have a free will.
lakerzz8 wrote:

Do you think those born into poverty an die of malnutrition are what they want to be?

What is the point of that statement in the abuse discussion? Abuse is widely spread, nothing to see with poverty.
lakerzz8 wrote:

Do you think a little girl that is raped by her father and is psychologically scarred for life will lead as full and complete of a life as a little girl that received nothing but love and support from her parents?

Again what's the point of this in the current discussion?
We are discussing abusing children, not rape, but even then, if you want to go that way, will raped girls rape other girls through their life?
If we go with your statements, they should go on a raping spree.
lakerzz8 wrote:
Come on man, why do you think psychologists get paid so much money to help people.

We don't have that culture of a shrink for every person here in W-Europ.
But it seems we slowly go that way, $$$$$$$$$$$ is the reason.
lakerzz8 wrote:
those that slip through and aren't helped in time may be the next child molester. Being abused as a child is not a cheap excuse.

Explain now why those that were never abused become abusers.
What's their excuse?

You may post as many lulz a you want, those are the facts:
-> abusers know it's wrong.
-> many who were abused will indeed abuse in their later life.
-> many who were abused will not do the same, they will restrain themselves from harming others in the same way.
-> many who abuse were never abused. They are simple rotten beings that live for themselves and don't want to restrain themselves.
-> many who abuse simply enjoy the feeling of power that comes with it.

-> we are humans, beings with a free will, to do good or wrong.



You said we have free will and everything else is a cheap excuse. The point of those statements was to show that what happens to us during life has a big impact and can sometimes be impossible to overcome (such as poverty, rape, etc) sorry that those examples flew over your head. I'll try something simpler next time.

Girls that get raped won't go on raping other girls. It doesn't work like that. What will probably happen is they will have sexual difficulties during relationships, have problems comitting, have anxiety when they step out on the street alone.

Guys that are abused or raped as little boys are the ones that are likely to become abusive later in their life.

Boys that watch their fathers beat their mothers their whole life and are taught by their fathers as acceptable go on to do the same to their spouses.

Our childhood is a very critical time in our development and sure it is possible to undo the damage done during childhood, but once again it is not a cheap excuse. And just because every person abused doesn't go on to abuse others does not mean that those that do were not strongly affected and damaged during their childhood.

And those that were never abused and go on to abuse others are known as sociopaths. It is a mental disorder. It is like they have no conscience. You said that they know what they are doing is wrong. All they know is that it is against the law, but they do not have a right and wrong moral compass like the rest of us. That little voice in our heads that tells us that what we are doing is bad is either very quiet or absent.

But whatever, we'll have to agree to disagree because I'm tired of writing these long posts and reading yours.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 6:39 am     Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm quite amused watching a 17 year old California kid lecture a 55 year old who grew up in post war France on the hardships of life. Not disparaging you, lakerzz, it just struck me as funny for some reason.

I worked for a year and a half at a "children's home" (though it was mostly young teens, and run more like a JDC than a home, barbed wire fences and all) here in town that had over 80 children who had been sexually abused and specialised in SAO youth. I've been trying to avoid this discussion simply because I've talked and read so much about the subject I'm rather sick of it, and plan on doing so, but I wanted to reply to a certain thing:

Quote:

Girls that get raped won't go on raping other girls. It doesn't work like that. What will probably happen is they will have sexual difficulties during relationships, have problems comitting, have anxiety when they step out on the street alone.

Guys that are abused or raped as little boys are the ones that are likely to become abusive later in their life.


While there is a marked positive correlation between being abused and being an abuser, it's NOT the same as cause and effect. There's quite a bit of discussion on the matter, but it's a very dangerous and foolish thing to say "that person was abused, so he'll likely be an abuser." It's one of the greatest myths of our society, largely fueled by people who are ignorant of both statistics and psychology.

Actually, males who have been abused are in a rather unique situation in that, if they cope with it properly, they can help guide and nurture other males recovering from abuse. Probably the worst thing you could tell a boy who's been abused is "you're likely to become an abuser" - you have no idea the amount of guilt and self-hatred already associated with being abused. In fact, this myth has been so wide spread that many males never come forward and discuss their abuse, because of the social stigma and suspicion attached to the abused.

So what's actually going on? As I said, positive correlation does not equal cause and effect. (you're a bright guy, and probably stayed awake in statistics, so you probably know this, but 95% of Americans can't seem to grasp that idea) Cause and effect are a lot harder to pin down, but some theories are:

1) The biggest one, a universal human trait (even among sociopaths) is the desire to feel justified - barring that, the desire to blame someone else. You've probably noticed certain people who constantly blame other people for their own problems - their parents, their boss, their landlord, their wife, the weather, etc. etc. etc. If you want a rather brilliant example, listen to Gee Officer Krumpke from West Side Story. It's just a desire to shirk responsibility instead of admitting fault. Possibly, most child molesters when caught blame their crime on the fact that they themselves were molested - even if it's not true.

2) Abuse may be far more prevalent in certain subcultures, religions, and societies. One of the highest (if not the highest) non-sexual physical abuser groups is alcoholics. (along with other substance abusers) Alcoholism is also at least partially genetic, so it could be substance abuse is what needs to be treated in those cases.

With sexual abuse, it's far more prominent among certain religious sects - extremist Mormon sects in particular. So religious beliefs (such as that all females exist solely for man's pleasure, for example) can be a contributing factor.

There are plenty of these.

3) Men who lack role models, and grow up feeling impotent and weak. Abuse is all about asserting power, and any man, perverted or not, who feels sexually powerless is going to try to assert that power. This is the biggest "cause" for abusers if you will, and it is men who grow up with negligent fathers/father figures, sexually abusive or not are by far the most likely to be sexually abusive.


Ironically, this would mean that by far the best way to insure abused people turn into abusers is to tell them that they're to blame for the abuse that happened (and this happens indirectly CONSTANTLY, society holds such a disdain for abused people. If you don't believe me, I'll find you 5 quotes in 5 minutes), and that they're most likely going to abuse again because of what happened. That caused them to feel ashamed and powerless - and gives them some justification for abusing too. (I can't help it! It's just the way I am!)

The best response is "yes you were abused, and there was nothing you could do about it when it happened. But now you're in control, and you have the power to deal with it. You have the power to seek help, to be vulnerable and let yourself be helped, and to reach normalcy in the fullness of time. I believe in you, and have confidence you can."

Again, this is from working with these kids and hearing about all the terrible lies people would tell them about themselves, many of those people even meaning well.

I'll shut up now.
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